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#Post#: 55864--------------------------------------------------
Debt recovery letter
DIR By: nothalf
Date: January 30, 2025, 8:44 am
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I have a letter from Debt Recovery Plus' for a parking fine for
'unauthorised parking' in a pub carpark. This I have appealed
against as the pub wasn't open.
Am I to ignore this letter?
Also I have only just found this community and the debt is due
to be paid today - very thankful for any help/comments
#Post#: 55875--------------------------------------------------
Re: Debt recovery letter
DIR By: b789
Date: January 30, 2025, 9:55 am
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Please read this:
READ THIS FIRST - Private Parking Charges Forum guide
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/private-parking-tickets/read-this-first-private-parking-charges-forum-guide/
No "debt" is to be paid by any date. Ignore the useless and
powerless Debt Recovery Agents (DRAs). They are not a party to
the contract allegedly breached by the driver and cannot
initiate anything.
Their sole purpose is to fool the low-hanging fruit on the
gullible tree to pay up out of ignorance and fear. Never, ever,
EVER, communicate with a powerless debt collector.
No "fine" has been issued and I will pay you £100 for every
occurrence of the word "fine" you can find on any paperwork.
Ignore DRP+. They are no the company that issued a Parking
Charge Notice (PCN) and you certainly don't pay them a penny
unless you have just fallen off the gullible tree.
Who did you appeal to? What did you say in your appeal?
#Post#: 55897--------------------------------------------------
Re: Debt recovery letter
DIR By: nothalf
Date: January 30, 2025, 11:33 am
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thanks for responding
I had appealed POPLA against Smart Parking and was rejected. My
case is that I parked and was waiting for a friend to meet me
there at the pub.
Whilst waiting we left the car to find a toilet for the kids.
As I we returned to the pub car park my friend had called to
change the venue and we left the pub to meet up else where.
I have tried to reason with the pub landlord but he claimed I
had no intention of using using entering the pub - he has CCTV
evidence.
I expected the appeal go my way and now am determined to make a
stand for commonsence and reasoning
#Post#: 55899--------------------------------------------------
Re: Debt recovery letter
DIR By: b789
Date: January 30, 2025, 11:50 am
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It is a pity you hadn't discovered this forum before you made
any appeal. (Not so) Smart Parking are one of the easiest to
defeat at the initial appeal stage because they do not issue
Parking Charge Notices (PCNs) that comply with PoFA. What this
means that as long as the Keeper appeals without identifying the
driver, they have nowhere to go.
By appealing as the Keeper and blabbing the drivers identity,
inadvertently or otherwise, with silly statements such as "I did
this or that" instead of just referring to the driver in the
third person such as "The driver did this or that", the Keeper
has thrown away the easiest of appeals that would have left (not
so) Smart Parking in a Catch-22 dilemma.
Why? Because the unknown driver is always liable. The known
Keeper is not under any legal obligation to identify the unknown
driver to an unregulated private parking company. So, if (not
so) Smart Parking do not know the identity of the unknown driver
and because they do not rely on PoFA to be able to hold the
known Keeper liable, they are stuffed.
If the Keeper has blabbed that they were also the driver when
there was no legal obligation to do so, they have, proverbially,
shot themselves in both feet! The Keeper and the driver are two
separate legal entities.
The POPLA decision is not binding on you. However, are you
willing to fight this as far as it is likely to go? You are
going to have to weather a storm of useless debt collector
letters. You can safely ignore any Debt Recovery Agent (DRA)
letters such as those from DRP+. They are not a party to the
contract allegedly breached by the driver. Never, ever, ever,
communicate with a useless DRA. All they can do is try and get
the low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree to pay up out of
ignorance and fear.
What the most likely outcome will be a county court claim for
the alleged debt which is easily defended. In the vast majority
of cases, as long as the claim is defended, they will eventually
discontinue. In the rest, the claim is struck out due to errors
made by the claimants solicitor. Of the tiny number that
actually go as far as a hearing, most are won.
So, are you prepared to fight this with the advice you will get
from here?
#Post#: 55958--------------------------------------------------
Re: Debt recovery letter
DIR By: nothalf
Date: January 31, 2025, 2:57 am
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Yes I am at the point of no return so,
how long will this next stage (deluge of debt collectors
letters) carry on and
at what point will I be notified of the county court claim
(presume this is the small claims court) - my evidence is based
on my statement when I appealed against their vehicle
registration photos of the time I entered the pub car park and
the time I left
#Post#: 55988--------------------------------------------------
Re: Debt recovery letter
DIR By: b789
Date: January 31, 2025, 6:40 am
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How long is a piece of string? The DRA phase is usually around a
month or two but, in theory, they can chase forever. They won't.
The phase you are waiting for is when they begin the litigation
stage by sending you a Letter of Claim (LoC). This is required
by the Pre Action Protocols (PAP). You will note the difference
between an LoC and a DRA letter because the DRA letters always
give you only 14 days to pay. The LoC must give you at least 30
days.
A DRA cannot issue an LoC because, as already mentioned, they
are not a party to the contract that the driver allegedly
breached. Only the party involved or their legal representative
can issue an LoC. (Not so) Smart Parking do not dp their own
litigation and usually farm it out to their bulk litigator of
choice, DCB Legal, but they could also use one of a few others.
When you receive an LoC, come back and we will take you through
the process. (Not so) Smart Parking and their bulk litigators
are really not vert smart at all. They are easily defeated and
only push on in the process up to the point where they have to
pay the trial fee, usually around a month before any hearing
date and then discontinue if the claim has not already been
thrown out for other failures that they never learn to correct.
IN all, it could last up to a year with the way the court system
is overloaded at the moment. Just remember, no one pays a penny
to (not so) Smart Parking if they are receiving and following
the advice they receive here.
#Post#: 55992--------------------------------------------------
Re: Debt recovery letter
DIR By: ixxy
Date: January 31, 2025, 6:49 am
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They can take you to court for anything up to six years after
the event.
"Of the tiny number that actually go as far as a hearing, most
are won" I would question that and it will depend on who's
taking you to court, Smart parking certainly aren't very smart,
some of the other companies are a lot better at what they do,
they will discontinue the ones they are less likely to win so if
does got to court they think they have a reasonable chance of
winning. What the court decides on the day though can have an
element of randomness in it.
Your best defence was don't tell them who was driving but you've
done that. Your grounds for appeal based on what you said you
appealed on were non existent.
"I expected the appeal go my way and now am determined to make a
stand for commonsense and reasoning"
Given you were exactly the sort of motorist the enforcement was
aimed at that's a bit naive. There is no common sense and
reasoning, it's a structured contract, if they think you broke
the terms they will come after you, that's their business model.
If you want to appeal you need to understand how the contract
works and grounds for why it was unenforceable. The appeals
process is now exhausted if POPLA have rejected. If the time
comes you will need a properly constructed defence.
Ignore the debt collectors letters but if you get an LoC come
back here and ask for advice on every step and follow it.
Alternatively pay the invoice and move on with your life.
#Post#: 55997--------------------------------------------------
Re: Debt recovery letter
DIR By: b789
Date: January 31, 2025, 7:03 am
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--- Quote from: ixxy link ---
>
> "Of the tiny number that actually go as far as a hearing, most
are won" I would question that and it will depend on who's
taking you to court, Smart parking certainly aren't very smart,
some of the other companies are a lot better at what they do,
they will discontinue the ones they are less likely to win so if
does got to court they think they have a reasonable chance of
winning. What the court decides on the day though can have an
element of randomness in it.
>
--- End Quote ---
I disagree. The only reason the few that make it all the way to
a hearing and are lost is more often than not down to the
defendant submitting a weak defence that is poorly pleaded and a
subsequent Witness Statement that also fails to properly flesh
out the already weak defence. That and their nerves on the day.
Yes, there is an element of "judge bingo" but in general, most
judges are already aware of the abuse of the system by these
bulk litigators on behalf of their vexatious clients. The only
difference between what we suggest on here and the MSE forum is
the actual defence. The MSE defence is a very long boilerplate
defence that most judges are fully aware of and cannot be
bothered to actually read all of it. Judges want an easy life
and a short defence is much more likely to actually be read.
The short defence suggested here points out the deficiencies in
the claimants PoC and failures of CPR 16.4. Now we ask the court
to strike out the claim for these CPR failures and, should the
judge not agree, to make the claimant submit further detailed
particulars so that the defendant can know and respond properly
to the claim.
I don't think we have and a single one of the defences I have
suggested submitting go as far as a hearing to date. The defence
was suggested by a current District Judge and is tweaked as
necessary.
#Post#: 56024--------------------------------------------------
Re: Debt recovery letter
DIR By: nothalf
Date: January 31, 2025, 8:33 am
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thanks for all your rounded support and explanations - all very
revealing
Do I come back to this thread when there is any developments?
I shall be following all the other entries with interest of
coarse, there are many drivers caught out by the cavalier
parking companies and without this sites open discussion and
support I do not know where else these issues could be raised
without going to the press
#Post#: 56027--------------------------------------------------
Re: Debt recovery letter
DIR By: b789
Date: January 31, 2025, 8:37 am
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If/when you receive an LoC, come back and we will advise
further. Ignore anything else except an LoC or an actual N1SDT
Claim Form from the CNBC.
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