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#Post#: 7985--------------------------------------------------
Re: Do I Stand a Chance at Tribunal?
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: October 21, 2023, 11:07 am
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--- Quote from: iispartan link ---
>
> Case Reference: 2210026624
>
--- End Quote ---
Link here
HTML https://drive.google.com/uc?id=1A-bK7Wjd4eBujkmSMqYwBuX3u-GeNLyy.
#Post#: 7995--------------------------------------------------
Re: Do I Stand a Chance at Tribunal?
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: October 21, 2023, 11:43 am
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I would add to my previous point:
There are no marked spaces, therefore 4 car spaces and 19-25 is
an ambiguous description because a driver is left thinking does
this mean:
a. 4 car spaces measured from no. 19 and how long is a car
length; or
b. the whole of the length of road between 19-25;
Ambiguity, which is hardly aided by the lack of a side-on photo
from the CEO for reasons which the adjudicator might find
odd...in addition to the authority's stance that there is no
ambiguity which could only arise if they formed this view based
upon the notes only. A photo paints a thousand words.
#Post#: 12229--------------------------------------------------
Re: Do I Stand a Chance at Tribunal?
DIR By: gbawekanu
Date: December 11, 2023, 4:50 pm
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My formal appeal to the council has been rejected.
I received the Notice of Rejection today, the link which I have
attached below.
In the appeal, they stated 'The 20 metre (4-car) space outside
19-25 Atherton Street was suspended ....'
There wasn't any '20 metre' written on the suspended sign.
HTML https://imgur.com/a/0lB1H5k
#Post#: 12235--------------------------------------------------
Re: Do I Stand a Chance at Tribunal?
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: December 11, 2023, 5:40 pm
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They haven't re-offered the discount, so it is now a no-brainer
to take them to London Tribunals, because the penalty remains
the same and there are no additional costs. You can make the
additional point to your previous reps that most motorists don't
go around with tape measures in their car to measure whether
they comply with asuspension or not.
#Post#: 12236--------------------------------------------------
Re: Do I Stand a Chance at Tribunal?
DIR By: mrmustard
Date: December 11, 2023, 5:52 pm
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I still want to see the Pcn please
#Post#: 12455--------------------------------------------------
Re: Do I Stand a Chance at Tribunal?
DIR By: gbawekanu
Date: December 14, 2023, 3:55 pm
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--- Quote from: mrmustard link ---
>
> I still want to see the Pcn please
>
--- End Quote ---
Unfortunately, I have lost the original PCN.
I only have the Notice to Owner.
This is the draft of my appeal to the tribunal.
APPEAL AGAINST PENALTY CHARGE NOTICE-- NO. XXXXXXXX
The Charge
Contravention 21 – Parked wholly or partly in a suspended bay or
space.
My appeal is therefore based on the following ground:-
(1) Penalty notice is ambiguous and misleading
The penalty notice refers to ‘4 car spaces outside 19 -25
Atherton Street'.
There are no marked spaces, therefore 4 car spaces and 19-25 is
an ambiguous description which is extremely confusing to the
average driver.
When I parked my car, I read the suspension notice and
diligently made sure that I left the required 4 car spaces
behind me from 19 Atherton Street.
In my formal appeal, I have asked the council to show me how it
arrived at the conclusion that there were less than 4 car spaces
behind my vehicle at the time that I parked. Furthermore, I
requested the council to provide me with a copy of whatever
evidence they have that proves this point (including their
definition of the length of a "car space" and the legal argument
they intend to make that justifies this definition) so that I
can make an informed decision about taking this case to the
parking tribunal.
The council has failed to respond to both requests, so I am not
able to effectively defend myself at the tribunal.
With respect, I would refer the adjudicator to ETA 2210026624
and the review of that decision.
Extract of the adjudicator ruling
“I have considered the totality of the evidence before me and I
find that I cannot be satisfied on balance that the signage
which highlight the suspension is adequate or clear for the
purposes of the
authority discharging their duties in demonstrating that the
reasonable driver would have been aware of the exact length of
the suspended bays. There is some ambiguity as to the length of
a bay and further the exact length of the suspension was not
properly marked out end to end in order to avoid any ambiguity.
I find therefore given the totality of the evidence before me on
balance, which includes lack of adequate signage and the fact
that the Appellant's vehicle is seen parked at the very edge of
what might be the 5 suspended spaces, then this leads me to the
conclude there is some ambiguity as to
whether there is an actual contravention. For these reasons I
therefore allow the appeal.”
I would respectfully ask that the PCN be cancelled on the above
ground.
#Post#: 12462--------------------------------------------------
Re: Do I Stand a Chance at Tribunal?
DIR By: mrmustard
Date: December 15, 2023, 4:11 am
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If you get rejected and go to the tribunal the council will, if
they fight on, produce the PCN and I can check it for legaility
at that point.
Message to everyone else, keep all your paperwork safe, it may
be useful. I'm a bit boring. I still have paperwork on cars I
sold years ago which has enabled me to make mis-selling claims
for the emissions cheating which has already led to one modest
payout.
#Post#: 12475--------------------------------------------------
Re: Do I Stand a Chance at Tribunal?
DIR By: Hippocrates
Date: December 15, 2023, 8:39 am
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Forget the detailed appeal for now. Just register online:
Contravention did not occur, I rely upon on my formal
representations and will submit full submissions when I receive
the council's evidence pack. Choose: personal hearing.
#Post#: 12558--------------------------------------------------
Re: Do I Stand a Chance at Tribunal?
DIR By: gbawekanu
Date: December 16, 2023, 12:49 pm
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--- Quote from: mrmustard link ---
>
> If you get rejected and go to the tribunal the council will,
if they fight on, produce the PCN and I can check it for
legaility at that point.
>
> Message to everyone else, keep all your paperwork safe, it may
be useful. I'm a bit boring. I still have paperwork on cars I
sold years ago which has enabled me to make mis-selling claims
for the emissions cheating which has already led to one modest
payout.
>
--- End Quote ---
I have submitted the appeal and will post the PCN when the
council produces their evidence. Thanks
#Post#: 12563--------------------------------------------------
Re: Do I Stand a Chance at Tribunal?
DIR By: Hippocrates
Date: December 16, 2023, 2:52 pm
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What have you submitted?
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