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#Post#: 4487--------------------------------------------------
Do I Stand a Chance at Tribunal?
DIR By: gbawekanu
Date: September 6, 2023, 10:07 am
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Hello fellow forum members,
I'm seeking your advice on whether I have a strong case to
escalate my parking ticket appeal to the tribunal. Here's a
brief rundown of the situation:
Parking Suspension Location: The council indicated that a
parking suspension was in place between 19 - 25 Atherton Road.
My Parking Location: On the day in question, I parked in front
of 27 Atherton Road, which is outside the suspension zone. (The
council claimed the rear portion of my car fell within the
suspension zone)
Timeline: I appealed against the ticket on 26 June. They only
responded to my appeal on 6 September, which, to my
understanding, exceeds the 56 days allowed for a response.
The council rejected my appeal. Given these circumstances, do
you believe I have a good chance at the tribunal? Has anyone
faced a similar situation or have insights about the 56-day
rule?
Appreciate any guidance or experiences you can share. Thanks in
advance!
HTML https://imgur.com/a/Exg4sq9
HTML https://imgur.com/a/Op29Urk
HTML https://imgur.com/a/8GbJMdT
#Post#: 4488--------------------------------------------------
Re: Do I Stand a Chance at Tribunal?
DIR By: John U.K.
Date: September 6, 2023, 10:14 am
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Please post up both sides of the PCN (unredacted) and a GSV link
to ther location. Were there any other Council photos?
#Post#: 4499--------------------------------------------------
Re: Do I Stand a Chance at Tribunal?
DIR By: Pastmybest
Date: September 6, 2023, 11:32 am
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Here from the photos a good chance but first you must make
formal representations to the council when you receive the NTO.
It is that representation that is subject to the 56 day limit
Here
HTML https://goo.gl/maps/ED7WDRgdt8egx2gW7
IMO the photos do not prove a contravention
#Post#: 4522--------------------------------------------------
Re: Do I Stand a Chance at Tribunal?
DIR By: Chaseman
Date: September 6, 2023, 4:58 pm
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We certainly need to see the PCN itself but in the meantime here
is a link to the temporary parking suspension authorisation for
Lambeth as granted by the DfT. It dates from 2012 but appears to
be the current one. Note the difference as between "Parking
Suspension" as authorised and "Parking Suspended" as per the
sign in the photograph. Also the different positioning of the No
Loading wording. Unfortunately I think too minor to get you off
at LTs as the meaning is clear. Better to concentrate on the
position of the car.
HTML https://assets.dft.gov.uk/trafficauths/case-3523.pdf
#Post#: 4532--------------------------------------------------
Re: Do I Stand a Chance at Tribunal?
DIR By: mrmustard
Date: September 7, 2023, 2:08 am
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Yes, let us see the complete PCN, cover nothing up and then we
can study the complete picture.
You have a chance at the tribunal but we are one step ahead of
ourselves as you do not have the Notice to Owner yet (and it
should already have been sent but is not late enough to be out
of time).
#Post#: 4534--------------------------------------------------
Re: Do I Stand a Chance at Tribunal?
DIR By: DancingDad
Date: September 7, 2023, 2:13 am
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The suspension sign specifically says 4 car spaces outside of
19-25.
Where are the spaces?
The authority seem to be taking is as the parking bay outside
of 19-25 including all the frontage of the two end houses.
Being as they seem to lack clarity on their suspension sign,
penalising for what would only be a minimal intrusion into the
area fronted by no 25 seems a bit rich.
As does the one CEo photo we have that is taken at an angle,
visually increasing any overlap.
#Post#: 4540--------------------------------------------------
Re: Do I Stand a Chance at Tribunal?
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: September 7, 2023, 3:12 am
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The parking place is continuous and extends from the junction
with Abercrombie to well beyond the boundaries of 19-25;
There are no internal markings indicating parking spaces;
Traffic signs are situated o/s the flank wall of 19/21 and at
the junction with Abercrombie;
The authority's response in support of their rejection states 'a
suspension sign was visible one car length in front of the
vehicle'.
IMO, given the traffic direction and that the only sign you had
passed was o/s 19/21 then it is whether this sign carried a
suspension sign which is key and not a sign which wasn't even in
the suspended area. IMO, the authority's burden is to show that
the only sign post situated within the suspended area carried a
suspension sign, not one 'one car length ahead'.
But there isn't any evidence to this effect as far as I can see.
OP, do you have other photos showing a suspension sign o/s
19-21?
..and 'one car length ahead of your car' means the rear of your
car couldn't have been within the suspended area - not the
strongest point, just picking up on their so-called rationale.
#Post#: 4543--------------------------------------------------
Re: Do I Stand a Chance at Tribunal?
DIR By: DancingDad
Date: September 7, 2023, 3:41 am
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--- Quote from: H C Andersen link ---
> ......
>
> IMO, given the traffic direction and that the only sign you
had passed was o/s 19/21 then it is whether this sign carried a
suspension sign which is key and not a sign which wasn't even in
the suspended area. IMO, the authority's burden is to show that
the only sign post situated within the suspended area carried a
suspension sign, not one 'one car length ahead'.
>
> But there isn't any evidence to this effect as far as I can
see. OP, do you have other photos showing a suspension sign o/s
19-21? .......
>
--- End Quote ---
That the sign the council is relying on is ahead of the vehicle
is irrelevant, a driver is expected to check signs when they
park, even if they are ahead of their direction of travel.
The point re signage outside 19/21 is more valid, if there was
no suspension sign on that, then the alert motorist would not
only see the normal sign but be entitled to rely upon it.
#Post#: 4545--------------------------------------------------
Re: Do I Stand a Chance at Tribunal?
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: September 7, 2023, 4:18 am
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I am only making one point re signage i.e. that the council must
establish that there was a suspension sign o/s 19/21 because:
It is the one last passed by the OP;
It is the only one within the suspended area.
Thr council have not as far as we know included this in their
evidence.
The point which derives from the sign ahead is their casual
reference to being one car length ahead. If they can be as
approximate with their measures, which in this case if taken
literally must establish that the OP's car was not within the
suspended area, then it undermines their credibility as regards
their certainty that the car was in the area based upon a single
imprecise photo taken at an oblique angle.
#Post#: 4566--------------------------------------------------
Re: Do I Stand a Chance at Tribunal?
DIR By: DancingDad
Date: September 7, 2023, 9:40 am
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The council don't have to establish that there was a sign on
19/21, that there was will be assumed unless OP can show
different or challenge the council on it and council fail to
address.
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