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DIR Return to: Speeding and other criminal offences
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#Post#: 55742--------------------------------------------------
Notice of proposed driving disqualification received
DIR By: Frankiebean
Date: January 29, 2025, 9:59 am
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Notice was received today, after I completed and plead guilty to
the SJP notice.
I have 11 points currently on my licence and I am a fool who
drove 35 on a 30 road and was captured on camera. Due to
totting up, I'm in a fix.
I would like to go to court and explain why the court should not
disqualify me, but I don't know where to start.
I would be inconvenienced by losing my licence (currently live
rurally and have to travel into London for work twice a week
contractually), as does my daughter (who doesn't drive, so I am
the taxi to the station).
However I worry that this is not enough mitigation, and instead
should request a short ban instead.
Offence occurred 30 November 2024 - 35mph speed exceeding 30
mph
Previous penalties and offences
Offence Date 26 August 2023 - SP30 - Penalty point expiry date
26 August 2026 / Removal date 26 August 2027
5 points given as I did the stupid not realising I had to add my
licence details to the initial letter and got an extra 2 points
and fine for that.
Offence Date 6 December 2021 - SP30 - Penalty point expiry date
6 December 2024/ Removal date 6 December 2025 - 3 points
Offence Date 5 December 2021 - SP30 - Penalty point expiry date
5 December 2024 / Removal date 5 December 2025 - 3 points
So my question is if there is any point in setting all this out
to the court as the totting up will put me over the top.
The other question is what is the difference between expiry date
and removal date, given that the recent offence was so close to
the expiry date (s) of the 2021 offences, will that in any way
be taken into consideration (doubtful I think).
Finally, are there any examples of witness statements that I
could consider looking at, as a search on your site doesn't give
me much hope.
Sorry to be a debbie downer, but I am so angry with myself. I
have 2 weeks to return the form to go to court or give my
reasons in writing.
Thanks for looking
#Post#: 55748--------------------------------------------------
Re: Notice of proposed driving disqualification received
DIR By: andy_foster
Date: January 29, 2025, 10:16 am
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3 years from date of offence to date of offence. If you had
waited another week to get caught again you would have been in
the clear (relatively speaking).
The reasons why you got the previous points (or more
specifically anything that might make them seem less serious)
are irrelevant for the purposes of totting up/extreme hardship.
What matters is whether you, and in particular, innocent people
who are reliant on your ability to drive, would suffer
exceptional hardship beyond that which most people would suffer
if they were banned.
If the court don't feel that you meet that test, there's no way
they would ban you outright for 35 in a 30 just to subvert
Parliament's intentions.
N.B. If you use the word "inconvenience", everything after that
will be a waste of ink.
That said, if I were to ever sit as a magistrate, I would be
minded if requested to do so to give a 3-6 month ban so that the
accused would not only have a lengthy ban, but still have lots
of points on his licence when he got it back. Strangely enough,
that's probably not the biggest reason why I would never be
allowed to sit as a magistrate.
#Post#: 55756--------------------------------------------------
Re: Notice of proposed driving disqualification received
DIR By: NewJudge
Date: January 29, 2025, 10:29 am
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Penalty points count for "totting up" for three years from the
date of the offence. They are removed from your driving record
after four years.
The circumstances of each of the individual offences are not a
consideration when a totting up ban is considered. It is only
the dates which matter and from your details (not to mention the
fact that the court is considering disqualifying you) it seems
clear you face a ban.
--- Quote ---
> I would be inconvenienced by losing my licence (currently live
rurally and have to travel into London for work twice a week
contractually), as does my daughter (who doesn't drive, so I am
the taxi to the station).
> However I worry that this is not enough mitigation,...
--- End Quote ---
No it is not enough. You must convince the court that you or
others will face "exceptional hardship". Being inconvenienced is
not sufficient. Here's the guidance that Magistrates refer to
when considering an "exceptional hardship" (EH) argument:
When considering whether there are grounds to reduce or avoid a
totting up disqualification the court should have regard to the
following:
It is for the offender to prove to the civil standard of proof
that such grounds exist. Other than very exceptionally, this
will require evidence from the offender, and where such evidence
is given, it must be sworn.
Where it is asserted that hardship would be caused, the court
must be satisfied that it is not merely inconvenience, or
hardship, but exceptional hardship for which the court must have
evidence;
Almost every disqualification entails hardship for the person
disqualified and their immediate family. This is part of the
deterrent objective of the provisions combined with the
preventative effect of the order not to drive.
If a motorist continues to offend after becoming aware of the
risk to their licence of further penalty points, the court can
take this circumstance into account.
Courts should be cautious before accepting assertions of
exceptional hardship without evidence that alternatives
(including alternative means of transport) for avoiding
exceptional hardship are not viable;
Loss of employment will be an inevitable consequence of a
driving ban for many people. Evidence that loss of employment
would follow from disqualification is not in itself sufficient
to demonstrate exceptional hardship; whether or not it does will
depend on the circumstances of the offender and the consequences
of that loss of employment on the offender and/or others.
--- Quote ---
> ...and instead should request a short ban instead.
>
--- End Quote ---
If you mean asking the court to impose a discretionary ban just
for this latest offence, that will not succeed. That offence by
itself would not attract a ban and the court would only be
imposing one to avoid a totting up disqualification. Even if it
did, the court has specific guidance to impose a "totting up"
ban of a minimum of six months if there is a choice between a
discretionary ban of less than six months or the totting up ban.
Is there any true hardship you or others will suffer for which
there are no practical alternatives to overcome if you cannot
drive?
#Post#: 55760--------------------------------------------------
Re: Notice of proposed driving disqualification received
DIR By: Frankiebean
Date: January 29, 2025, 10:38 am
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--- Quote from: andy_foster link ---
>
>
>
> If the court don't feel that you meet that test, there's no
way they would ban you outright for 35 in a 30 just to subvert
Parliament's intentions.
>
> N.B. If you use the word "inconvenience", everything after
that will be a waste of ink.
>
>
--- End Quote ---
Yes I realise the inconvenience part, but what are the courts
options if not to ban outright if they don't feel I meet the
hardship test, surely adding more points is an automatic ban?
Thanks
#Post#: 55762--------------------------------------------------
Re: Notice of proposed driving disqualification received
DIR By: Frankiebean
Date: January 29, 2025, 10:41 am
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Thanks Both, that's clear. Honestly I've been avoiding thinking
of the implications of a driving ban. So will have to think it
all over, collect evidence etc.
Thanks again
#Post#: 55765--------------------------------------------------
Re: Notice of proposed driving disqualification received
DIR By: andy_foster
Date: January 29, 2025, 10:51 am
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If you tot up to 12 points or more (for offences committed
within 3 years of each other) the court is required to ban you
for at least 6 months unless you can persuade them that such a
ban would cause exceptional hardship, in which case they can
reduce the length of the ban, potentially to zero.
They give you the points, you tot up to 12 points and then they
consider any exceptional hardship arguments.
#Post#: 63061--------------------------------------------------
Re: Notice of proposed driving disqualification received
DIR By: Frankiebean
Date: March 18, 2025, 8:50 am
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Just in case anyone else is in this position. I plead guilty
and decided not to go to court or give any mitigations (as there
werent any). Received a 6 month ban and £400 fine which I have
been given time to pay off in 4 monthly installments. So be it.
Car is in garage and I'm doing a SORN until I can drive it
again.
Thanks again for your advice.
#Post#: 63082--------------------------------------------------
Re: Notice of proposed driving disqualification received
DIR By: NewJudge
Date: March 18, 2025, 10:11 am
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Thanks for letting us know.
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