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#Post#: 55233--------------------------------------------------
Hackney Council, PCN for parking in a newly created motorcycle
bay.
DIR By: helpmeout25
Date: January 26, 2025, 4:07 pm
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Hello All,
I parked today in Hackney on a road I always park on however
within 30 minutes I came back out to my car and had a parking
ticket for 'Parked in parking place or area not designated for
that class of vehicle'.
As it was a Sunday I didn't fully check the signs as there are
no parking restrictions on this road and this new
restriction/bay looks brand new and not fully finished. There
are 2 other restriction bays on the road, one is for 'Car Club'
and the other in 'EV Vehicle's', both of these are marked with
signs and a painted floor tag designating the bays which are
affected.
The new motorcycle bay that I parked in doesn't have this so you
have to go off of an unclear sign which doesn't properly label
the correct bay making it all very inconsistent and confusing to
the unsure.
First time posting here and I have read the thread beforehand
but do please let me know if I need to share any other info. I
have 2 weeks to respond to the council (09/02/25)
HTML https://i.imgur.com/IlmpXTH.jpeg
#Post#: 55238--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hackney Council, PCN for parking in a newly created
motorcycle bay.
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: January 26, 2025, 4:29 pm
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Signage does look confusing but the bay does have double
dividers.But how are you supposed to tell which sign applies
apart from the m/c being on top.
The PCN doesn't say what class is supposed to be there.
HTML https://i.ibb.co/5RXCw9Z/h3.jpg
HTML https://i.ibb.co/j3LDLVv/h2.jpg
HTML https://i.ibb.co/q1Yb94r/h1.jpg
#Post#: 55251--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hackney Council, PCN for parking in a newly created
motorcycle bay.
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: January 26, 2025, 5:15 pm
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--- Quote ---
> Signage does look confusing but the bay does have double
dividers.But how are you supposed to tell which sign applies
apart from the m/c being on top.
--- End Quote ---
It doesn't look confusing to me, but then, I've been giving
advice for some time on this forum and the now closed Pepipoo
forums, so am reasonably up-to-speed on bays and signs.
The signs are placed on a pole at the dividing point between two
separate bays that have, (incredibly !!!), actually been marked
correctly. The signs are side by side with arrows pointing to
their applicability. To the left motorcycles, to the right,
other vehicles.
I think the key to your problem is your statement "As it was a
Sunday I didn't fully check the signs as there are no parking
restrictions on this road". Yet these bays and signs
demonstrates that there are parking restrictions. In addition, a
quick look at Barbauld Road using GSV shows virtually the whole
street with parking bays and restrictions on their use.
Sorry if this isn't what you wanted to hear; new restrictions do
seem to catch out people who have parked regularly in a location
over a long period, but it won't convince an adjudicator, I'm
afraid.
There may be a 'technical' appeal based on Hackney mismanagement
of the enforcement process, so wait a bit to see what the others
say. Also please post the back of the PCN so we can assess the
'small print' for fatal errors.
#Post#: 55413--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hackney Council, PCN for parking in a newly created
motorcycle bay.
DIR By: helpmeout25
Date: January 27, 2025, 1:21 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Hi Both,
Thanks for the responses so far, I'll attach the image from the
back of the ticket below. Please let me know if anything else is
needed at all!
I don't think all my images came through so trying to re-upload
these. The double dividers have always been there so this isn't
a new addition which is why it's confusing for people when
parking. The main issue I feel is that the bays aren't marked on
the floor like the other exclusive one's which is weirdly
inconsistent. The council have implemented this very recently
and seemed to give the attendant instructions to circle on a
Sunday since 3 people including myself by 12 pm had tickets.
Not sure if it helps the case at all but wanted to add that
extra bit of info, the bay in question is just at the end and a
couple of cars down from the images below:
HTML https://i.imgur.com/ijcUkLr.jpeg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/Qf0RhL1.jpeg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/fY4A5ww.jpeg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/xyE0CPB.jpeg
#Post#: 55461--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hackney Council, PCN for parking in a newly created
motorcycle bay.
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: January 27, 2025, 5:23 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I must say I still don't get the signage - Mr I what do you
think the two plates pointing to the left convey?
#Post#: 55464--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hackney Council, PCN for parking in a newly created
motorcycle bay.
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: January 27, 2025, 5:35 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: stamfordman link ---
>
> I must say I still don't get the signage - Mr I what do you
think the two plates pointing to the left convey?
>
--- End Quote ---
First plate restricts parking to motorcycles-only at all times
Second plate gives days and times when m/cs parking there must
have a permit, or pay to park.
#Post#: 55493--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hackney Council, PCN for parking in a newly created
motorcycle bay.
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: January 28, 2025, 4:06 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Yes I know that's what it means but I'm not happy withy the
division into two plates with two arrows and also the lack of a
road legend. The OP has been misled into thinking the bay is
only timed at the times of the bottom plate.
Hackney has been turning its m/c bays into shared use permit/pay
bays and I think they should look like the below. I expect a
legend will appear in the OP's bay.
HTML https://i.imgur.com/SbgOJmT.png
#Post#: 55498--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hackney Council, PCN for parking in a newly created
motorcycle bay.
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: January 28, 2025, 4:33 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Well, of course the OP has the absolute right in law to take the
matter to London Tribunals, but my view is that the sign is
clear enough. Obviously others like yourself differ.
#Post#: 55500--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hackney Council, PCN for parking in a newly created
motorcycle bay.
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: January 28, 2025, 4:43 am
---------------------------------------------------------
There's also this:
The PCN is vague as to the alleged contravention. Tribunal case
2170522445 is typical and the decision says
This PCN was issued for the alleged contravention of being
parked in a parking place or area not designated for that class
of vehicle. The alleged contravention occurred in The Broadway
at 1.12pm on 5 September 2017.
The Schedule to The Civil Enforcement of Parking Contraventions
(England) General Regulations 2007 sets out the contents
required by the Regulations for a valid PCN served under
Regulation 10.
Among other things, the PCN is required to state the grounds on
which the enforcement authority believes that the penalty charge
is payable. Those grounds must be expressed in terms that allow
the recipient of the PCN to properly understand the nature of
the alleged contravention.
The Council say that the place in which Mrs Baltrusch De Gois'
car was parked was a goods vehicle only loading bay. In other
words, the bay was designated for goods vehicles only. This is
not, however, clear on the face of the PCN which states simply
that the vehicle was parked in a place not designated for that
class of vehicle.
A motorist reading the PCN would not understand from the wording
the nature of the alleged contravention because there is nothing
to explain the class of vehicle for which the parking place was
designated. The PCN needs to identify, whether by wording or
images, that the class of vehicle for which the bay is
designated is goods vehicles only.
I therefore find that the PCN was invalid and the appeal is
allowed for that reason.
#Post#: 55561--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hackney Council, PCN for parking in a newly created
motorcycle bay.
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: January 28, 2025, 9:31 am
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Yes, of course. I just think that an appeal based on the sign
being vague/misleading would fail, and the OP needs something
else to go on.
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