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#Post#: 54978--------------------------------------------------
Need advise on PCN
DIR By: HBaig
Date: January 24, 2025, 5:15 pm
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Hi,
I have received a parking ticket while parking on suspended
parking for two cars which I appealed as there was no signage
next to parking space, it was one long bay for many cars and
they placed suspension sign in the middle of whole parking bay
on lamp post (see picture) whereas in my opinion they should
have put up this sign next to suspended two car space . I have
appealed on these grounds but they refused the appeal and now I
have an option to pay discounted amount or wait for this to
raise to full amount then I get an option to take it further.
It was Sunday evening, I normally go there for dinner and I know
there are no restrictions on Sundays.
Please advise shall I pay the discounted amount while I can or
take it further. I have attached pictures and letter I received
if that any help.
Council name: Tower Hamlets
Location: New Road, Whitechapel
Contravention Code: 21
Car: Grey Toyota Prius (GD07FLH)
PCN Number: TT58121725
Street View:
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/3wuQqrYVYPysQc686
HTML https://i.imgur.com/fD7n6xP.jpeg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/9Suyxly.jpeg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/fwJKcUN.jpeg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/EJzv8vo.jpeg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/qcNVW80.jpeg
#Post#: 54980--------------------------------------------------
Re: Need advise on PCN
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: January 24, 2025, 6:37 pm
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Please read this and update your post accordingly. In
particular, the PCN all sides, and a GSV link to the exact
location where you parked, Please indicate where the car was.
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/
Their suspension sign was on the same pole as the parking bay
sign, so has been correctly sited, unless, of course, the bay
has more than one parking conditions sign.
#Post#: 54996--------------------------------------------------
Re: Need advise on PCN
DIR By: HBaig
Date: January 25, 2025, 3:10 am
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--- Quote from: Incandescent link ---
>
> Please read this and update your post accordingly. In
particular, the PCN all sides, and a GSV link to the exact
location where you parked, Please indicate where the car was.
>
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/
>
> Their suspension sign was on the same pole as the parking bay
sign, so has been correctly sited, unless, of course, the bay
has more than one parking conditions sign.
>
--- End Quote ---
Hi, Thanks for your reply - I have updated my post accordingly.
Regards
#Post#: 55003--------------------------------------------------
Re: Need advise on PCN
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: January 25, 2025, 4:23 am
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There is only one sign for the whole bay, and the suspension
sign has been placed just below this sign on the same pole.
Problem is the sign specifies 2 spaces, yet the bay is not
divided into individual spaces. Was there anything else put in
the bay to indicate which spaces were suspended, like cones or
barriers ? Their letter refers to "yellow markings" on the
"floor". Clearly the person who wrote this letter only has a
limited vocabulary, because floors are normally in buildings !
So, were there any "yellow markings on the floor" ? The sign
doesn't refer to any "yellow markings".
If it were me, I'd take take them all the way on inadequate
signage of the suspension. However, it is your decision, as
you'd have to risk the full PCN penalty. This is now councils
get away with inadequate signing; they just refuse all informal
reps thus forcing people to either cough-up, which >95% do, or
appeal the matter at the adjudicator
#Post#: 55031--------------------------------------------------
Re: Need advise on PCN
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: January 25, 2025, 6:59 am
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Sunday so permit bay not in force.
There is nothing in the council pics that shows where this 2 car
space is and there are no separate vehicle bays in the overall
business permit bay.
Where are these yellow markings - which are not mentioned on the
suspension sign - and how are you supposed to relate them to a
sign? Usual practice would be to say it's outside a
house/building number but I guess it's the building works
covering an entrance and of course no work was going on on
Sunday - which is another point.
You were parked at least one vehicle way from the sign and a
reasoanble interpretation is a bay equivalent on either side of
the sign in my view.
HTML https://i.ibb.co/zbN2QJ8/Screenshot-2025-01-25-at-12-50-13.png
HTML https://i.ibb.co/0rh81bK/Screenshot-2025-01-25-at-12-49-52.png
#Post#: 55099--------------------------------------------------
Re: Need advise on PCN
DIR By: HBaig
Date: January 25, 2025, 2:36 pm
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--- Quote from: Incandescent link ---
>
> There is only one sign for the whole bay, and the suspension
sign has been placed just below this sign on the same pole.
Problem is the sign specifies 2 spaces, yet the bay is not
divided into individual spaces. Was there anything else put in
the bay to indicate which spaces were suspended, like cones or
barriers ? Their letter refers to "yellow markings" on the
"floor". Clearly the person who wrote this letter only has a
limited vocabulary, because floors are normally in buildings !
>
> So, were there any "yellow markings on the floor" ? The sign
doesn't refer to any "yellow markings".
>
> If it were me, I'd take take them all the way on inadequate
signage of the suspension. However, it is your decision, as
you'd have to risk the full PCN penalty. This is now councils
get away with inadequate signing; they just refuse all informal
reps thus forcing people to either cough-up, which >95% do, or
appeal the matter at the adjudicator
>
--- End Quote ---
Thank you for your response. There were no markings on the road
or footpath, which was my main point. How was I supposed to know
which parking spaces were suspended? If the sign had been placed
on the construction site's brown wall, I would have accepted the
PCN. Additionally, since it was a Sunday, I assumed parking
restrictions weren't in effect, as I regularly park on this
road. I usually pay fines when I park incorrectly, but in this
case, I feel i got this one wrong.
#Post#: 55100--------------------------------------------------
Re: Need advise on PCN
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: January 25, 2025, 2:53 pm
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Wait for the Notice to Owner and I will write a formal
representation for you. The signage looks inadequate to me and
the CEO has not got a single photo showing the car and the sign
in the same shot.
#Post#: 55133--------------------------------------------------
Re: Need advise on PCN
DIR By: HBaig
Date: January 26, 2025, 3:34 am
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--- Quote from: cp8759 link ---
>
> Wait for the Notice to Owner and I will write a formal
representation for you. The signage looks inadequate to me and
the CEO has not got a single photo showing the car and the sign
in the same shot.
>
--- End Quote ---
Thank you and all other members for the support.
#Post#: 55137--------------------------------------------------
Re: Need advise on PCN
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: January 26, 2025, 4:40 am
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--- Quote from: cp8759 link ---
>
> Wait for the Notice to Owner and I will write a formal
representation for you. The signage looks inadequate to me and
the CEO has not got a single photo showing the car and the sign
in the same shot.
>
--- End Quote ---
The second shot I posted does show the car and the suspension
sign in the background but I agree it's not adequate.
#Post#: 55150--------------------------------------------------
Re: Need advise on PCN
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: January 26, 2025, 6:56 am
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Parking place situated on west side of New Road north of its
junction with Fieldgate St. It measures approx. 35 metres.
The average length of a car is in the range 4.3-4.5m (RAC
estimates) and the bay is not internally divided. It therefore
follows that up to 8 vehicles could be accommodated at the same
time.
The suspension sign refers to '2 car spaces' which, without
further indication, is vague in the extreme. It certainly does
not meet the council's mandatory duty to provide adequate
information regarding restrictions.
I note the council's reference to 'yellow markings on the floor'
in respect of which I would comment as follows:
1. No such markings or indicators were in situ and none is
evidenced in the council's photos;
2. Even if such indicators did exist, it falls to the council to
state their purpose in the suspension notice itself. No such
reference is included.
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