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#Post#: 65551--------------------------------------------------
Re: Southwark - PCN Code 12
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: April 3, 2025, 9:47 am
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Register an appeal:
Grounds:
b)the recipient—
(i)never was the owner of the vehicle in question,
and,
Procedural impropriety.
Just get it done pl. Elect for personal hearing(it'll be by
video or phone).
You can make 'further representations' AKA supplementary points
later to support/add to those in your original reps.
Let us know when your appeal is registered pl.
To be clear on the substantive legal point, it is the COUNCIL's
burden to prove and not yours to rebut that you may be
considered to be the keeper for the purposes of the Traffic
Management Act.
Can't wait to see their evidence which they should upload to the
tribunal website at least 7 days prior to the hearing and copy
separately to you!
#Post#: 67399--------------------------------------------------
Re: Southwark - PCN Code 12
DIR By: samosa
Date: April 16, 2025, 10:38 am
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--- Quote from: H C Andersen link ---
>
> Register an appeal:
>
> Grounds:
> b)the recipient—
>
> (i)never was the owner of the vehicle in question,
>
> and,
>
> Procedural impropriety.
>
> Just get it done pl. Elect for personal hearing(it'll be by
video or phone).
>
> You can make 'further representations' AKA supplementary
points later to support/add to those in your original reps.
>
> Let us know when your appeal is registered pl.
>
> To be clear on the substantive legal point, it is the
COUNCIL's burden to prove and not yours to rebut that you may be
considered to be the keeper for the purposes of the Traffic
Management Act.
>
> Can't wait to see their evidence which they should upload to
the tribunal website at least 7 days prior to the hearing and
copy separately to you!
>
--- End Quote ---
Many thanks for your reply. For the avoidance of doubt, I am
submitting the following on the Notice of Appeal:
Section 5
- I was not the owner of the vehicle at the relevant time
and
There has been an procedural impropriety on the part of the
Enforcement Authority
-
Section 6 - Details of Appeal
I will explain that "I have provided the LA with the details of
the Ltd company (my employer) who are responsible for any
parking fines, but the council has been uncooperative and
continued to pursue me"
Is that all correct or have I missed something?
#Post#: 67415--------------------------------------------------
Re: Southwark - PCN Code 12
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: April 16, 2025, 12:08 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
The appeals process requires you to register an appeal at which
stage you can submit skeleton grounds, as here.
The authority are then notified and required to submit their
evidence.
At which point you may make what's known as 'further
representations', in effect the substantive appeal.
You're at the first stage.
Come back when you've received confirmation that it's been
registered.
#Post#: 67433--------------------------------------------------
Re: Southwark - PCN Code 12
DIR By: Hippocrates
Date: April 16, 2025, 1:33 pm
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Please please screenshot the website page as if to challenge.
Before you lodge the appeal.
#Post#: 72035--------------------------------------------------
Re: Southwark - PCN Code 12
DIR By: samosa
Date: May 18, 2025, 7:26 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: H C Andersen link ---
>
> The appeals process requires you to register an appeal at
which stage you can submit skeleton grounds, as here.
>
> The authority are then notified and required to submit their
evidence.
>
> At which point you may make what's known as 'further
representations', in effect the substantive appeal.
>
> You're at the first stage.
>
> Come back when you've received confirmation that it's been
registered.
>
--- End Quote ---
Ok folks, the Tribunal Date has been set for 02/07/2025. I've
not heard anything from Southwark council since the letter from
the tribunal service (dated 23/04/2025).
What happens in the interim? Am I supposed to do anything,
lodge any further supporting information?
#Post#: 72052--------------------------------------------------
Re: Southwark - PCN Code 12
DIR By: Hippocrates
Date: May 18, 2025, 9:45 am
---------------------------------------------------------
What does your NOA contain? You can check the Tribunal portal to
view their evidence.
#Post#: 72059--------------------------------------------------
Re: Southwark - PCN Code 12
DIR By: samosa
Date: May 18, 2025, 10:45 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Hippocrates link ---
>
> What does your NOA contain? You can check the Tribunal portal
to view their evidence.
>
--- End Quote ---
That doesn't appear to be any submission from the council.
Below is a screenshot of everything I can see. It looks like
only my initial submission is shown.
Is there something I should do at this stage?
[img]
HTML https://photos.app.goo.gl/JPms4N9DwQ13vRsbA[/img]
HTML https://photos.app.goo.gl/JPms4N9DwQ13vRsbA
HTML https://photos.app.goo.gl/JPms4N9DwQ13vRsbA
#Post#: 72068--------------------------------------------------
Re: Southwark - PCN Code 12
DIR By: Pastmybest
Date: May 18, 2025, 11:09 am
---------------------------------------------------------
No unless the tribunal ask you anything wait until the council
upload their evidence. If they don,t you win
#Post#: 72095--------------------------------------------------
Re: Southwark - PCN Code 12
DIR By: Hippocrates
Date: May 18, 2025, 2:35 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[member=292]samosa[/member] Have you kept a record of all
screenshots re status* of prices and dates? In my experience.
this council say they serve evidence when they haven't so I
would check the portal. Make up a reason and click continue
which takes you to the page.
*It says this:
The amount outstanding on the Penalty Charge Notice will
increase to £195.00 very soon. Please pay £130.00 now.
You have already made representations for this PCN and we
replied on Fri, 7 Mar 2025. You cannot make representations
twice
This is an unlawful demand for money. Do you want me to
represent you?
Case here
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/southwark-failing-to-comply-with-a-prohibition-of-certain-types-of-vehicle/msg66338/#msg66338
***
This thread shows how aggrieved I am by all this:
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/attention-all-recipients-of-pcns-from-lambeth-lewisham-andor-southwark-proposed-/
#Post#: 75881--------------------------------------------------
Re: Southwark - PCN Code 12
DIR By: samosa
Date: June 10, 2025, 1:37 pm
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Hey everyone
Southwark council uploaded their evidence to the Tribunal portal
(and served it to me by email) on 6th June 2025.
Here's the redacted version of everything:
HTML https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1TpO0hGVMrfJ187UO6RXbZ8KgwoGi8VpY?usp=sharing
The key points in summary are:
- I had a replacement vehicle provided to me by BMW whilst the
company pool car was in the dealership for maintenance
- The replacement vehicle was hired by BMW through a specialist
hire company. They delivered the vehicle to me and noted my
details (name, address, drivers license copy etc) as the person
the vehicle was released to.
- The car received a ticket issued by Southwark. Their
photographic evidence shows the ticket attached to the vehicle.
However, the PCN was not attached to the car when we returned to
it. The first we knew a ticket had been issued was when the
hire company notified us.
- I provided Southwark with details of my company who are
legally responsible for the fine and who are willing to pay the
PCN. However the LA demanded I provide a hire agreement. They
refused to reissue the NTO and this is why we are now at this
stage.
What do you suggest I do from here?
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