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#Post#: 54701--------------------------------------------------
OPC PCN – Overstay of time – St John's Retail Park,
Wolverhampton- Mistake appealing at the last minute, not had a
reply
DIR By: bobisnotmyname
Date: January 23, 2025, 9:42 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Hi, please could I ask for some help and advice.
In November I received a PCN from OPC for overstaying the free
time period at St John's Retail Park in Wolverhampton (First and
second letter in the link below)
HTML https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1o4hSrVmOX-xbZysvgyEVzaVPEQjqi7Zp?usp=sharing
HTML https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1o4hSrVmOX-xbZysvgyEVzaVPEQjqi7Zp?usp=sharing
I sent an email appeal (using the MSE template I have used
sucsesfully once before when a ticket machine issue led to a
PCN) on the 19th December stating:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To: appeals@observices.co.uk
Re PCN number: 'PPC: XXXXXXX'
I dispute your 'parking charge', as the keeper of the vehicle. I
deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making
a complaint about your predatory conduct to your client
landowner.
There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no
assumptions can be drawn. Since your PCN is a vague template, I
require an explanation of the allegation and your evidence. You
must include a close up actual photograph of the sign you
contend was at the location on the material date as well as your
images of the vehicle.
If the allegation concerns a PDT machine, the data supplied in
response to this appeal must include the record of payments made
- showing partial VRNs - and an explanation of the reason for
the PCN, because your Notice does not explain it.
If the allegation involves an alleged overstay of minutes, your
evidence must include the actual grace period agreed by the
landowner.
In order to resolve the dispute I attach copies of two
transactions made at the Costa in Next on the site during the
period in question, while not identifying the driver, I can
state that they are currently infirm due to a medical condition.
Regards
THE DRIVER IS NOT IDENTIFIED.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I received a reply stating:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Automatic reply: Re PCN number: 'PPC: XXXXXX'
Thu, 19 Dec 2024,
We acknowledge receipt of your appeal.
A response to your appeal can take up to 35 days. Your ticket
has been placed on hold until a decision is made and you will be
notified of the outcome.
If your appeal has been received within the 14 day discount
period from the issue date of the ticket, then your ticket will
be frozen at the reduced amount.
Kind regards
Appeals Department
OPC
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Then on the 20th December I received and sent all of the emails
laid out below over the period of two hours.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thank you for your email.
Unfortunately, your appeal has been received out of the
required ‘within 28 days from issue date’ of Private Parking
Charge XXXXXX. We are therefore unable to accept your appeal,
out of this timeframe.
Please be advised that Private Parking Charge XXXXX has been
issued in line with the Protection of Freedom Act 2012. The
following information can be found on PPC XXXXXX:
“If after 28 days beginning with the day after that on which
this notice is given, this Private Parking Charge Notice has not
been paid in full, and we have not been made aware of the name
and current address for service of the driver, under Schedule 4
of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (‘the Act’), we do have
the right, subject to the requirements of the Act, to recover
from the keeper of the vehicle at the time it was parked so much
of that amount that remains unpaid. If you are a vehicle-hire
firm and the vehicle was hired out at the time the parking took
place, please also let us know and provide us with a copy of the
hire agreement and a copy of statement of liability signed by
the hirer under that hire agreement. Please note that we may
have a right to recover unpaid parking charges from you.”
Regards
Appeals Department
OPC
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I replied
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I sent the appeal yesterday, the 19th December.
This is within 28 days of the issue date
HTML https://www.convertunits.com/dates/28/daysfrom/Nov+21,+2024
And less than 28 days after I received the notice in the post
(22nd November).
Please reply to the merits of my appeal.
Regards
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
They said:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thank you for your most recent email.
Please be advised, the issue date of PPC XXXXXX was the
21/11/2024. Your appeal was sent on 19/12/2024, therefore as
previously stated the appeal was received out of the required
‘within 28 days from issue date’ to appeal. Not from when the
Private Parking Charge was received.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I replied
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
HI
Please read the legislation you quoted to me
"If after 28 days beginning with the day after that on which
this notice is given"
Beginning with the day after that which it was given is the key
words, 28 days after the 21st November is today the 20th
December.
HTML https://www.convertunits.com/dates/28/daysfrom/Nov+22,+2024
Regards
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
They said:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thank you for your most recent email.
We kindly ask you to refer to the below excerpt, "If after 28
days beginning with the day after that on which this notice is
given" refers to, Private Parking Charge Notice has not been
paid in full, and we have not been made aware of the name and
current address for service of the driver. Not relating to
appealing.
“If after 28 days beginning with the day after that on which
this notice is given, this Private Parking Charge Notice has not
been paid in full, and we have not been made aware of the name
and current address for service of the driver, under Schedule 4
of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (‘the Act’), we do have
the right, subject to the requirements of the Act, to recover
from the keeper of the vehicle at the time it was parked so much
of that amount that remains unpaid. If you are a vehicle-hire
firm and the vehicle was hired out at the time the parking took
place, please also let us know and provide us with a copy of the
hire agreement and a copy of statement of liability signed by
the hirer under that hire agreement. Please note that we may
have a right to recover unpaid parking charges from you.”
Regards
Appeals Department
OPC
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My final reply:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi
This is a bit farcical going back and forth, as per your scheme
rules, and the reply you sent to me when the appeal and request
for information was sent.
"A response to your appeal can take up to 35 days. Your ticket
has been placed on hold until a decision is made and you will be
notified of the outcome."
I have submitted an appeal on the 27th of 28 days and now have
no intention of providing any more information while the ticket
is on hold and the appeal / my request for more information is
pending.
Please don't contact me again till you have answered all of my
questions.
Regards
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't think I responded in the best way possible. I have not
heard anything since, post or email. They don't have a site I
can login and see the status, I haven't even seen the images the
two letters alluded too. Was my appeal sent in time? If so the
35 days expire today (by my calculations), what should I do
next? Apologies for the wall of text!
Thanks for any advice or help. It is much appreciated.
#Post#: 54723--------------------------------------------------
Re: OPC PCN – Overstay of time – St John's Retail Park,
Wolverhampton- Mistake appealing at the last minute, not had a r
DIR By: b789
Date: January 23, 2025, 11:11 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Welcome John. The first thing you may want to do is redact your
name and address above. Secondly, can you post a picture of the
original Notice to Keeper (NtK) you received from OPC. Both
sides.
Once we can review the NtK, we can advise on the next steps to
take.
Is this the company: Observices Parking Consultancy Ltd
HTML https://observices.co.uk
?
If so, they are BPA members. If they have not accepted your
appeal and not provided a POPLA code then we have several
avenues we can take.
I have not dealt with this company before and I certainly have
not seen anything to suggest they are litigious.
#Post#: 54731--------------------------------------------------
Re: OPC PCN – Overstay of time – St John's Retail Park,
Wolverhampton- Mistake appealing at the last minute, not had a r
DIR By: bobisnotmyname
Date: January 23, 2025, 11:24 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Hi b789
Thanks for your welcome and reply.
I thought I'd redacted everything, typical to miss something
large!
The NtK / letters are in this google drive link
HTML https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1o4hSrVmOX-xbZysvgyEVzaVPEQjqi7Zp?usp=sharing
HTML https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1o4hSrVmOX-xbZysvgyEVzaVPEQjqi7Zp?usp=sharing
Thanks
#Post#: 54737--------------------------------------------------
Re: OPC PCN – Overstay of time – St John's Retail Park,
Wolverhampton- Mistake appealing at the last minute, not had a r
DIR By: b789
Date: January 23, 2025, 11:37 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Just posting this here as I refuse to keep downloaded docs from
others. I just wish people would use Imgur
HTML http://imgur.com
to host their images.
HTML https://i.imgur.com/2EMLboT.jpeg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/vt1FwiD.jpeg
I don't see any mention in the NtK of an appeal deadline. The
BPA/IPC Private Parking Single Code of Practice (PPSCoP) states
the following in section 8.1.2:
--- Quote ---
> 8.1.2.
> The parking operator must ensure that a notice informs the
recipient:
> a) of the contact details of the parking operator (e.g.
telephone number, email address, website) and of those to which
appeals should be made (where different);
> b) the parking charge was incurred on private land;
> c) of the process by which the recipient may appeal against
the parking charge;
> d) that in the event of the recipient appealing the parking
charge and that appeal being rejected, they have a further right
of appeal to the Appeals Service but that the discounted rate no
longer applies should they appeal to an Appeals service;
> e) that if the recipient appeals within 28 days of receiving
the parking charge, the right to pay at the rate applicable when
the appeal was made must stand for a further 14 days from the
date (subject to 8.1.2d) they receive
> notification that their appeal has been rejected;
--- End Quote ---
I don't see that as having been complied with.
As for the deadlines for submitting an appeal, the PPSCoP goes
on to state:
--- Quote ---
> NOTE 1: Where the 14 days to pay was at the reduced rate a
further 14 days should be offered to make payment at the full
rate.
> NOTE 2: A notice sent by post is to be presumed, unless the
contrary is proved, to have been delivered on the second working
day after the day on which it is posted; and for this purpose,
“working day” means any day other than a Saturday, Sunday or a
public holiday in England and Wales. Therefore, parking
operators must retain a record of the date of posting of a
notice, not simply of that notice having been generated (e.g.
the date that any third-party Mail Consolidator actually put it
in the postal system.)
> [indent]f) of the operator’s complaints procedure in
accordance with Clause 11; and
> g) if payment is made, they cannot appeal.[/indent]
--- End Quote ---
SO, if the alleged contravention took place on Thursday 14th
November 2024 and the PCN was "issued" on Tuesday 21st November
2024, then it was deemed given on Monday 25th November 2024.
Point 'e' above states quite clearly that "...that if the
recipient appeals within 28 days of receiving the parking
charge, the right to pay at the rate applicable when the appeal
was made must stand for a further 14 days from the date (subject
to 8.1.2d) they receive notification that their appeal has been
rejected".
So, the Keeper has 28 days from the date the PCN is "received"
which is the same as "given". 28 days from the date of receipt
(deemed, not actual) was Monday 23rd December 2024.
This response from the intellectually challenged employees at
this rogue operator said:
--- Quote ---
> "Please be advised, the issue date of PPC 572323 was the
21/11/2024. Your appeal was sent on 19/12/2024, therefore as
previously stated the appeal was received out of the required
‘within 28 days from issue date’ to appeal. Not from when the
Private Parking Charge was received."
--- End Quote ---
So, as you can see, you are dealing with utter morons and you
need to make a formal complaint to the operator pointing out
their utter incompetence and demanding that they accept that
your appeal was submitted within the timescales as required in
the PPSCoP. If they do not respond or accept your appeal, you
can then escalate it to the BPA.
Would you like a suitable formal letter of complaint to submit
to the operator?
#Post#: 54738--------------------------------------------------
Re: OPC PCN – Overstay of time – St John's Retail Park,
Wolverhampton- Mistake appealing at the last minute, not had a r
DIR By: bobisnotmyname
Date: January 23, 2025, 11:46 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Wow, that is an amazing amount of useful infomation, sorry for
uploading in Google Drive rather then imager.
A complaint template would be fantastic thanks, it will be a lot
more impressive that what I could cobble together from what you
have provided
Many thanks again
#Post#: 54922--------------------------------------------------
Re: OPC PCN – Overstay of time – St John's Retail Park,
Wolverhampton- Mistake appealing at the last minute, not had a r
DIR By: b789
Date: January 24, 2025, 8:49 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote ---
> Observices Parking Consultancy Ltd
> PO Box 956
> St Albans
> AL1 9HJ
>
> By email: enquiries@observices.co.uk
>
> [Date]
>
> Subject: Formal Complaint Regarding Mishandling of Appeal for
PCN [INSERT PCN NUMBER]
>
> To the Complaints Department,
>
> I am writing as the Registered Keeper to submit a formal
complaint regarding the handling of my appeal for Private
Parking Charge Notice (PCN) [INSERT PCN NUMBER]. Your rejection
of my appeal is based on a fundamental misunderstanding of the
BPA/IPC Private Parking Single Code of Practice (PPSCoP) and the
Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA).
>
> Your failure to recognise that my appeal was submitted within
the prescribed 28-day timeframe, combined with your refusal to
issue a POPLA code, demonstrates a breach of the regulations you
are required to follow as a BPA member. I will outline your
specific failings below.
>
> Assessment of Your Procedural Errors
>
> There is no mention in the NtK of an appeal deadline. The
BPA/IPC Private Parking Single Code of Practice (PPSCoP) states
the following in section 8.1.2:
>
> [indent]8.1.2.
>
> The parking operator must ensure that a notice informs the
recipient:
>
> [indent]a) of the contact details of the parking operator
(e.g., telephone number, email address, website) and of those to
which appeals should be made (where different);
>
> b) the parking charge was incurred on private land;
>
> c) of the process by which the recipient may appeal against
the parking charge;
>
> d) that in the event of the recipient appealing the parking
charge and that appeal being rejected, they have a further right
of appeal to the Appeals Service but that the discounted rate no
longer applies should they appeal to an Appeals service;
>
> e) that if the recipient appeals within 28 days of receiving
the parking charge, the right to pay at the rate applicable when
the appeal was made must stand for a further 14 days from the
date (subject to 8.1.2d) they receive notification that their
appeal has been rejected.[/indent][/indent]
>
> I don't see any of that as having been complied with.
>
> As for the deadlines for submitting an appeal, the PPSCoP goes
on to state:
>
> [indent]"NOTE 1: Where the 14 days to pay was at the reduced
rate a further 14 days should be offered to make payment at the
full rate.
>
> NOTE 2: A notice sent by post is to be presumed, unless the
contrary is proved, to have been delivered on the second working
day after the day on which it is posted; and for this purpose,
“working day” means any day other than a Saturday, Sunday or a
public holiday in England and Wales. Therefore, parking
operators must retain a record of the date of posting of a
notice, not simply of that notice having been generated (e.g.,
the date that any third-party Mail Consolidator actually put it
in the postal system.)
>
> f) of the operator’s complaints procedure in accordance with
Clause 11; and
>
> g) if payment is made, they cannot appeal."[/indent]
>
> It does not take much intellectual effort to work out that if
the alleged contravention took place on Thursday 14th November
2024 and the PCN was "issued" on Thursday 21st November 2024,
then it was deemed "given" (legal jargon meaning "received") on
Monday 25th November 2024. Sub paragraph (e) in section 8.1.2 of
the PPSCoP clearly states that:
>
> [indent]"...that if the recipient appeals within 28 days of
receiving the parking charge, the right to pay at the rate
applicable when the appeal was made must stand for a further 14
days from the date (subject to 8.1.2d) they receive notification
that their appeal has been rejected".[/indent]
>
> In order not to tax your minds too much, what that means is
that the Keeper has 28 days from the date the PCN is "received",
which is the same as "given". Therefore, 28 days from the date
of "receipt" was Monday 23rd December 2024.
>
> This response from an obviously intellectually challenged
employee handling appeals at your company wrote:
>
> [indent]"Please be advised, the issue date of PPC 572323 was
the 21/11/2024. Your appeal was sent on 19/12/2024, therefore as
previously stated the appeal was received out of the required
‘within 28 days from issue date’ to appeal. Not from when the
Private Parking Charge was received."[/indent]
>
> This is blatantly wrong and highlights the gross incompetent
or deliberately mendacious behaviour of your employee.
>
> Transparency and Compliance Failings
>
> 1. Failure to Display Registered Address
>
> Your website does not display your registered address, and
your Privacy Policy includes a blank postal address. This is a
breach of:
>
> [indent]• The Companies (Trading Disclosures) Regulations
2008, which require companies to display their registered name
and office address on websites and correspondence.
>
> • Section 8.1.2(a) of the PPSCoP, which requires operators to
provide clear contact details.[/indent]
>
> 2. Non-Compliant Privacy Policy (DPO Contact Details)
>
> Your Privacy Policy fails to provide a postal address for your
Data Protection Officer (DPO), instead listing only an email
address and phone number. This violates:
>
> [indent]• Articles 13 and 14 of the UK General Data Protection
Regulation (GDPR), which require full DPO contact details,
including a postal address.[/indent]
>
> These omissions undermine transparency and accountability,
making it harder for individuals to contact you regarding
appeals or data protection concerns.
>
> Resolution Required
>
> I demand that you:
>
> [indent]• Cancel the PCN immediately, acknowledging the appeal
was submitted on time or
>
> • Provide a POPLA code if you refuse to cancel the PCN, in
line with BPA requirements.
>
> • Immediate publication of your registered address and
correction of your Privacy Policy to include a proper postal
address for your DPO.[/indent]
>
> If I do not receive a satisfactory response within 14 days, I
will escalate this matter to the British Parking Association
(BPA), Companies House, and the Information Commissioner’s
Office (ICO) as appropriate.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> [Your Full Name]
> [Your Address]
> [Your Email Address]
--- End Quote ---
Keep this screenshot of their Privacy Policy t0 use in your
complaint to the ICO:
HTML https://i.imgur.com/ZBFvULe.jpeg
#Post#: 54931--------------------------------------------------
Re: OPC PCN – Overstay of time – St John's Retail Park,
Wolverhampton- Mistake appealing at the last minute, not had a r
DIR By: bobisnotmyname
Date: January 24, 2025, 9:30 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Thank you very much for such a thorough letter, I've sent it in
with my details added and will update back on the outcome.
#Post#: 55528--------------------------------------------------
Re: OPC PCN – Overstay of time – St John's Retail Park,
Wolverhampton- Mistake appealing at the last minute, not had a r
DIR By: bobisnotmyname
Date: January 28, 2025, 7:13 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Just received from OPC:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Private Parking Charge: XXXXX
Issue date: 21/11/2024
Vehicle registration: XXXXXX
Location: St Johns Retail Park, Wolverhampton
Reason for issue: overstayed the maximum time allowed
by the terms & condition
Dear Mr XXXXX,
We write further to your email dated 24/01/2025, the contents of
which have been noted.
After reviewing your appeal, although all requirements have been
met by OPC, we have, as a gesture of good will, cancelled PPC
XXXXXX, on this occasion.
Please be advised, parking at St Johns Retail Park,
Wolverhampton states on the signage throughout the retail park
there is a maximum stay of 2 hours. There is also a telephone
number, on the signage that can be used at the time, in any
unforeseen circumstances, causing an overstay. This will
prevent any further private parking charges being issued to you.
Yours sincerely,
Appeals Department
OPC
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thank you very much for your help, I assume to make them more
work, I should reply thanking them for their kind allowance but
also ask if they are going to answer my other points of
complaint, update their website privacy policy etc etc.
I'm happy to expend some effort to help them become compliant /
be annoying
Thank you again [member=26]b789[/member]!
#Post#: 55538--------------------------------------------------
Re: OPC PCN – Overstay of time – St John's Retail Park,
Wolverhampton- Mistake appealing at the last minute, not had a r
DIR By: DWMB2
Date: January 28, 2025, 8:01 am
---------------------------------------------------------
"Gesture of goodwill" is parking company speak for "This one
will be trouble, let's focus on easier targets". Good result.
Yep, if you're up for being a pain, follow up on the other
points. If you've threatened to escalate to other parties, do so
if they don't address your points.
#Post#: 55567--------------------------------------------------
Re: OPC PCN – Overstay of time – St John's Retail Park,
Wolverhampton- Mistake appealing at the last minute, not had a r
DIR By: b789
Date: January 28, 2025, 9:43 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Personally, I'd give them hell if they have not addressed all
the points in the formal complaint. You can raise it to their
ATA and also the DVLA if necessary.
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