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       #Post#: 54494--------------------------------------------------
       "Universal parking enforcement" - NTK 'Kelly's
       Storage' Luton
   DIR By: pipo6066
       Date: January 22, 2025, 7:24 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Hello I received this very amateurish/scam looking NTK,
       While I believe there's a chance the vehicle was waiting there
       at the time, it was well past midnight on a rainy night and no
       'private parking' signs where in sight, I'm sure that if there
       were the car wasn't waiting there.
       Is it legal for them to send this 3 months after the alleged
       event?? Thanks for any help or advice, I don't want this to get
       to debt collectors but this level of low effort screams
       injustice. Thank you!
       [attachment deleted by admin]
       #Post#: 54504--------------------------------------------------
       Re: "Universal parking enforcement" - NTK 'Kelly's
       Storage' Luton
   DIR By: jfollows
       Date: January 22, 2025, 8:16 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       They can send this when they like, they have six years under
       contract law, but they’re too late to transfer liability to the
       registered keeper (you) from the driver (unknown) and you have
       no obligation to name the driver.
       You already have a reply written for you in the other thread you
       have commented on.
       And it’s not a “fine”, it’s a highly speculative invoice.
       #Post#: 54512--------------------------------------------------
       Re: "Universal parking enforcement" - NTK 'Kelly's
       Storage' Luton
   DIR By: baroudeur
       Date: January 22, 2025, 8:35 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       A space often used, out of working hours, by cars waiting to
       pick up passengers from Luton Airport as the road and verge are
       covered by council DRL cameras
       The boundary between the highway and the private property is
       where the council's double red lines  and the private double
       yellow  lines meet.
  HTML https://tinyurl.com/e8f3c2pc
       #Post#: 54518--------------------------------------------------
       Re: "Universal parking enforcement" - NTK 'Kelly's
       Storage' Luton
   DIR By: pipo6066
       Date: January 22, 2025, 8:58 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       OK so I send them that reply? And they'll go away? I don't want
       to discover I have debt collectors waiting...
       Also looking at the 'evidence' these photos were taken by mobile
       phones at different times and at least one photo is faked (the
       'time' photos hoped on the photo) differs substantially from teh
       time in the file metadata when it was taken, isn't this criminal
       forgery of 'evidence'? You can easily check this by looking at
       the image file properties -> Details on your computer...
       #Post#: 54536--------------------------------------------------
       Re: "Universal parking enforcement" - NTK 'Kelly's
       Storage' Luton
   DIR By: jfollows
       Date: January 22, 2025, 9:39 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Send the reply, then ignore anything else you receive,
       especially from debt collectors, and only take action if you
       receive a genuine letter before claim or court notification.
       Your letter is to tell them you’re not a mug and you haven’t
       fallen for their threats.
       Debt collectors are powerless, they have the same legal status
       as I do if I write to you demanding money, ie none. Read this
       forum more.
       Don’t bother “appealing” to the IAS either, it’s a sham and
       nobody here wastes time and effort with it.
       #Post#: 54543--------------------------------------------------
       Re: "Universal parking enforcement" - NTK 'Kelly's
       Storage' Luton
   DIR By: DWMB2
       Date: January 22, 2025, 9:55 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote ---
       > Don’t bother “appealing” to the IAS either, it’s a sham and
       nobody here wastes time and effort with it.
       --- End Quote ---
       Whilst I'd ordinarily agree, we have seen some success with very
       clear non-PoFA cases, like this one.
       #Post#: 54545--------------------------------------------------
       Re: "Universal parking enforcement" - NTK 'Kelly's
       Storage' Luton
   DIR By: b789
       Date: January 22, 2025, 9:56 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       For heavens sake... stop going on about useless "debt
       collectors". You must be low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree
       if you think that a debt collector can do anything about this
       alleged debt. They can't. All they can do is try and get you to
       poop your pants and pay up out of ignorance and fear.
       The debt collector is not a party to the contract allegedly
       breached by the driver and there is absolutely nothing they can
       do that can affect you. Ignore any debt collector if you ever
       get one.
       That Parking Charge Notice (PCN), issued as a postal Notice to
       Keeper (NtK) cannot hold the Keeper liable because it is not
       compliant with all the requirements of PoFA. They have no idea
       who the driver is unless you blab it to them, inadvertently or
       otherwise. There is no legal obligation on the Keeper to
       identify the driver to an unregulated private parking company
       and you should not bab the drivers identity by saying stupid
       things like "I did this or that". You are the Keeper and you
       always refer to the driver in the third person such as "The
       driver did this or that". Do you understand so far?
       I have no idea what "reply" you are referring to but I suggest
       you send the following, only as the Keeper, as your appeal to
       this Mickey Mouse bunch of ex-clampers:
       --- Quote ---
       > Easy one to defeat... as long as the unknown drivers identity
       is not revealed. There is no legal obligation on the known
       keeper (the recipient of the Notice to Keeper (NtK)) to reveal
       the identity of the unknown driver and no inference or
       assumptions can be made.
       >
       > The NtK is not compliant with all the requirements of PoFA
       which means that if the unknown driver is not identified, they
       cannot transfer liability for the charge from the unknown driver
       to the known keeper.
       >
       > Use the following as your appeal. No need to embellish or
       remove anything from it:
       >
       > [quote]I am the keeper of the vehicle and I dispute your
       'parking charge'. I deny any liability or contractual agreement
       and I will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to
       your client landowner.
       >
       > As your Notice to Keeper (NtK) does not fully comply with ALL
       the requirements of PoFA 2012, you are unable to hold the keeper
       of the vehicle liable for the charge. Partial or even
       substantial compliance is not sufficient. There will be no
       admission as to who was driving and no inference or assumptions
       can be drawn. UPE has relied on contract law allegations of
       breach against the driver only.
       >
       > The registered keeper cannot be presumed or inferred to have
       been the driver, nor pursued under some twisted interpretation
       of the law of agency. Your NtK can only hold the driver liable.
       UOE have no hope at IAS, so you are urged to save us both a
       complete waste of time and cancel the PCN.
       --- End Quote ---
       [/quote]
       Don't be surprised though if they reject the appeal. They are
       scammers and they are hoping you are stupid enough to not
       realise and pay up. An IAS appeal would be futile but you may as
       well try one if they reject the initial appeal.
       As long as you follow our advice and don't overthink this and
       stop panicking about useless debt collector letters, you won't
       be paying a penny to these ex-clampers.
       #Post#: 54594--------------------------------------------------
       Re: "Universal parking enforcement" - NTK 'Kelly's
       Storage' Luton
   DIR By: pipo6066
       Date: January 22, 2025, 1:21 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: baroudeur link ---
       >
       > A space often used, out of working hours, by cars waiting to
       pick up passengers from Luton Airport as the road and verge are
       covered by council DRL cameras
       >
       > The boundary between the highway and the private property is
       where the council's double red lines  and the private double
       yellow  lines meet.
       >
       >
  HTML https://tinyurl.com/e8f3c2pc
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Thanks for this,
       Looking at the excellent google maps photo, can a private firm
       issue 'charges' on council double red lines - assuming they are
       not properly contracted by the council? Do they have
       'jurisdiction'? Can these be grounds for 'appeal'? Thank you
       #Post#: 54613--------------------------------------------------
       Re: "Universal parking enforcement" - NTK 'Kelly's
       Storage' Luton
   DIR By: b789
       Date: January 22, 2025, 5:10 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       They’re not “council double red lines”. The entrance is private
       land and they can paint rainbow lines if they want and create
       any terms. However, they sneakily continue the official red line
       onto the private property.
       Stop overthinking this. Just send the appeal and wait for the
       response.
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