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       #Post#: 54391--------------------------------------------------
       Waltham Forest, code 51J Failing to comply with no entry
       restriction, Phyppe Way / Whipps Cross Road E11 (A) (cctv)
   DIR By: Numberuno
       Date: January 21, 2025, 3:02 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I'm not really familar with the area I got the ticket.  I was
       there as I was picking up a relative from the hospital, as they
       went there with another relaitve but had to leave as they had an
       early morning appointment.
       When leaving the hosiptal I was attempting to follow my sat nav
       and noticed that it was bearing/turning left ahead.  Which is
       when I drove past the no entry sign,which was a for buses only
       lane. The left turn I needed to take was at the end of the bus
       lane. I sort of glimsed the sign as I drove past it.  I pressed
       my brakes whilst past the sign and reversed back to check the
       sign, saw the no entry sign and reversed back out and went on
       the sort of roundabout to go past that no entry road and turn
       left just after it.
       This may not be excusable but thought I'll have a check on here
       just in case or am I pretty much bang to rights and should just
       pay the £65? I was tired as I was about to go bed when relative
       phoned and asked if I could collect them,I was lost in the
       hospital for abit trying to find them. also I was probably
       slightly distracted by conversation with realtive as we just
       left the hospital and I following sat nav at the same time,
       which as I mentioned above I could see I was going to take the
       next left and assumed where I was driving was a normal road,
       until the sign registered with me a bit too late.
       Thanks for any help or advice.
  HTML https://imgur.com/a/xhn7AVR
  HTML https://imgur.com/a/2zAothR
  HTML https://imgur.com/a/25ti5fc
  HTML https://imgur.com/a/3OMX6UV
       #Post#: 54394--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Waltham Forest, code 51J Failing to comply with no entry
       restriction, Phyppe Way / Whipps Cross Road E11 (A) (cctv)
   DIR By: Numberuno
       Date: January 21, 2025, 3:11 pm
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       Sorry, here is a Google Maps link to the location and an image.
       Looks like I copied the wrong image codes in the OP.
  HTML https://i.imgur.com/sOfAkjQ.jpeg
  HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/3KFz65bWHUGYhUMx8
  HTML https://imgur.com/sOfAkjQ
       #Post#: 54418--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Waltham Forest, code 51J Failing to comply with no entry
       restriction, Phyppe Way / Whipps Cross Road E11 (A) (cctv)
   DIR By: fraser.mitchell
       Date: January 21, 2025, 5:03 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       A typical money-grubbing PCN that we see so often.
       You clearly stopped having seen the sign, but the video doesn't
       show you reversing back out, (naturally !!). In addition, the
       restriction, (a single No Entry sign), is, in my view
       inadequate, and should have been placed on the nearside to
       emphasis its applicability. Two, one each side of the approach,
       would have been better. Councils are under a duty in LATOR
       Regulation 18 to place adequate signage to indicate a
       restriction. Typical English regulation, because who decides
       whether it is adequate or not ? The council who put up the
       signs, of course !!
  HTML https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1996/2489/regulation/18
       So your reps should contain two aspects, with recognition of the
       restriction but too late to avoid passing the sign, and the
       inadequacy of a single sign that lead you into the restriction.
       Do be aware that the council, ever greedy for your money, will
       refuse your representations, so you must be prepared to stand
       your ground and take them to London Tribunals. Driving a few
       yards past the sign then backing out is what I would consider a
       de minimis contravention, and occured due to the inadequate
       signage.
       You have the absolute right in law to take them to London
       Tribunals, but must accept that the full PCN penalty will be in
       play. I think the odds are reasonable, but it's not a slam-dunk
       win, I'm afraid.
       #Post#: 55015--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Waltham Forest, code 51J Failing to comply with no entry
       restriction, Phyppe Way / Whipps Cross Road E11 (A) (cctv)
   DIR By: Numberuno
       Date: January 25, 2025, 5:55 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Thanks for the advice, it seems as though there's a 50/50
       chance, or maybe slightly better.  I looked at a few of the
       reviews for the tribunial and they don't look promising.  I
       think I might just pay this one as if I lose it will be the full
       amount, plus likely taking time of work to attend.
       #Post#: 55042--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Waltham Forest, code 51J Failing to comply with no entry
       restriction, Phyppe Way / Whipps Cross Road E11 (A) (cctv)
   DIR By: Hippocrates
       Date: January 25, 2025, 7:47 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Numberuno link ---
       >
       > Thanks for the advice, it seems as though there's a 50/50
       chance, or maybe slightly better.  I looked at a few of the
       reviews for the tribunial and they don't look promising.  I
       think I might just pay this one as if I lose it will be the full
       amount, plus likely taking time of work to attend.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       My bad. Apologies for PM!
       Main issues:
       1. No evidence of sign passed and inadequate.
       2. Can this be used with a Bus Only legend?
       3. Website does not contain grounds as far as I can see. Cases
       won on this very recently by cp8759 and myself.
       I would certainly make a representation.
  HTML https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917
       #Post#: 55191--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Waltham Forest, code 51J Failing to comply with no entry
       restriction, Phyppe Way / Whipps Cross Road E11 (A) (cctv)
   DIR By: Numberuno
       Date: January 26, 2025, 11:50 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Hippocrates link ---
       >
       > [quote author=Numberuno link=topic=4780.msg55015#msg55015
       date=1737806142]
       > Thanks for the advice, it seems as though there's a 50/50
       chance, or maybe slightly better.  I looked at a few of the
       reviews for the tribunial and they don't look promising.  I
       think I might just pay this one as if I lose it will be the full
       amount, plus likely taking time of work to attend.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       My bad. Apologies for PM!
       Main issues:
       1. No evidence of sign passed and inadequate.
       2. Can this be used with a Bus Only legend?
       3. Website does not contain grounds as far as I can see. Cases
       won on this very recently by cp8759 and myself.
       I would certainly make a representation.
  HTML https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917
       [/quote]
       No problem.  Thanks for your replies, I have not made payment
       yet. I agree that there should be a sign on the left side of the
       road as that is where you usually expect them.
       1. With regard to number 1 it looks like I have driven past or
       at minimum level with the "no entry" sign on the right hand
       side, in the pictures and in the video.
       2. Hopefully someone knows the answer to this.
       3. On this point, are you talking about the PCN page? on there
       it has "Contravention 51j Failing to comply with a no entry
       restriction.
       #Post#: 55305--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Waltham Forest, code 51J Failing to comply with no entry
       restriction, Phyppe Way / Whipps Cross Road E11 (A) (cctv)
   DIR By: Hippocrates
       Date: January 27, 2025, 5:55 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       The website issue is for later. I trust you understand my points
       about them having to prove the signage which IMO is inadequate
       any way. I can draft something later.
       #Post#: 99174--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Waltham Forest, code 51J Failing to comply with no entry
       restriction, Phyppe Way / Whipps Cross Road E11 (A) (cctv)
   DIR By: Kojo86
       Date: November 21, 2025, 8:50 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Hi Hippocrates,
       Apologies for jumping on this post, but the exact thing happened
       to my mother picking up my father from the hospital.
       Could I possibly see what you drafted for this?
       Many thanks.
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