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#Post#: 53885--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN Newham Council for loading bay (unmarked with inadequate
signage)
DIR By: Enceladus
Date: January 17, 2025, 9:45 pm
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--- Quote from: RoutineSystem4728 link ---
>
> ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
>
> In December, I received a higher charge PCN saying that the
PCN doubled from £64 to £129. At this point I appealed on the
grounds that the Council failed to maintain adequate road
signage, and the loading bay was also unmarked. I stated that
the Council have a responsibility to maintain clear signs, and
this was in accordance with Regulation 18 of The Local
Authorities' Traffic Orders (Procedure) (England and Wales)
Regulations 1996.
>
> I received no response from the Council, and in January I
received a Charge Notice. I notified the Council that I received
no response to my appeal, after which they wrote back to me via
e-mail stating that the they had sent the letter notifying me
that the appeal failed. The letter was attached to the e-mail
and dated 23 December 2024. I have a feeling that this letter
was backdated, as I received both the higher PCN charge and the
charge notice, but somehow did not receive this.
>
> ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
>
--- End Quote ---
As I understand you, in December 2024 you received the Notice to
Owner dated the 13th Dec. You then submitted a formal
representation (challenge) to the Council.
When did you submit the representation and was it online or
Royal Mail?
You then received an email.
When did the email arrive with you and please post up the text
of the email. Redact your name & address and email address.
Leave everything visible.
The letter dated the 23rd Dec does not appear to be a properly
formatted Notice of Rejection. It does not say it's an NoR and
there is no verification code for the London Tribunals. The code
is required to submit an appeal to the Adjudicator. Nor does it
state the timeframe for an appeal. The letter does give you 14
days beginning the 23rd Dec to pay the balance of £64. So it's
arguably an out of process reminder letter and not a formal
notice of rejection.
13/12/2024 = Fri = date of NTO and presumed date of posting
17/12/2024 = Tue = 2nd working day = deemed date of service =
day 1 of 28 day relevant period
07/12/2025 = Tue = date of CC = day 22
13/01/2024 = Mon = day 28 of 28 day relevant period
14/01/2025 = Tue = day 29 = 1st day the Council could lawfully
issue a CC
I'm wondering if it's better to wait for the Order for Recovery
and to then submit a Witness Statement. Or try and submit an
appeal to the Adjudicator immediately, without the code. See
what others have to say.
#Post#: 54017--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN Newham Council for loading bay (unmarked with inadequate
signage)
DIR By: RoutineSystem4728
Date: January 19, 2025, 4:43 am
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The formal representation was submitted on 14 December and it
was via e-mail.
I have attached the e-mail which contained the NoR . The e-mail
was sent on 13 January.
I don’t think many others would response to this forum, seeing
as though you’re the only that seems to be helping. In that
case, perhaps it’d be better to er on the side of caution and
appeal to the independent adjudicator immediately? I don’t
really want this charge to rack up any further and bring any
more headache down the line. However I have no problem drafting
a witness statement if required and can do this myself. Please
do let me know what you think. Thank you.
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 54018--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN Newham Council for loading bay (unmarked with inadequate
signage)
DIR By: mickR
Date: January 19, 2025, 4:56 am
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you will get further responses.
#Post#: 54020--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN Newham Council for loading bay (unmarked with inadequate
signage)
DIR By: John U.K.
Date: January 19, 2025, 5:26 am
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Do have a read of
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/announcements/charge-certificate-cases-under-the-traffic-management-act-2004-no-original-notic/
My understanding is that you can truthfully assert that you did
not receive a Notice of Rejection. See what others say.
--- Quote ---
> I don’t really want this charge to rack up any further and
bring any more headache down the line.
--- End Quote ---
Provided you stick to process, the penalty cannot increase
further, and if the Charge Certificate has been issued
prematurely you should succeed at Tribunal. Once you have a date
for hearing you will get further advice about the grounds of
appeal to include.
Again, see what others here advise.
Is your name & address on the V5C correct in every particular?
#Post#: 54093--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN Newham Council for loading bay (unmarked with inadequate
signage)
DIR By: RoutineSystem4728
Date: January 19, 2025, 3:53 pm
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Yep it’s all correct. Seems as though there’s serious procedural
issues that were not followed by Newham Council. Let’s see if we
get any further responses down the line. Thank you for your
help.
#Post#: 54179--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN Newham Council for loading bay (unmarked with inadequate
signage)
DIR By: Enceladus
Date: January 20, 2025, 6:30 am
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Please post up the text of your "formal representation" that you
submitted via email on the 14th Dec.
What email address did you send it to.
The NTO that you have posted says that you need to use their
website and a security code to submit representations. I don't
see any postal or email address on the NTO. Are there any
provided?
However the email response from the council does refer to your
"representation" several times and also gives you a deadline of
the 27th Jab to pay at the discount rate of £65. And sure enough
the amount outstanding on the Council site yesterday was £64.
#Post#: 54255--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN Newham Council for loading bay (unmarked with inadequate
signage)
DIR By: RoutineSystem4728
Date: January 20, 2025, 3:07 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I submitted the representation via the Council website and was
given a code in return for my appeal. I have a screenshot of
this. I no longer have the full text for my full representation,
however, I used the following for the main body of my Grounds of
Appeal.
"**Lack of Adequate Signage:**
According to Regulation 18 of The Local Authorities' Traffic
Orders (Procedure) (England and Wales) Regulations 1996, it is
required that traffic signs indicating the effect of an order be
placed to ensure that they are adequate to convey the order to
the road users. In this case, there was no signage indicating
the hours of operation or the specific restrictions of the
loading bay where my vehicle was parked. The only indication is
a marking on the road, which is insufficient without
accompanying signs. This lack of proper signage does not comply
with the legal requirements and thus invalidates the PCN[/i]".
I feel as though I have uploaded sufficient information over the
past week. In regards to next steps, what do you think the best
course of action is?
#Post#: 54259--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN Newham Council for loading bay (unmarked with inadequate
signage)
DIR By: Neil B
Date: January 20, 2025, 3:19 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: RoutineSystem4728 link ---
>
> I don’t think many others would response to this forum, seeing
as though you’re the only that seems to be helping. In that
case, perhaps it’d be better to er on the side of caution and
appeal to the independent adjudicator immediately? I don’t
really want this charge to rack up any further and bring any
more headache down the line. However I have no problem drafting
a witness statement if required and can do this myself. Please
do let me know what you think. Thank you.
>
--- End Quote ---
\\
\maybe others, like me, are watching with interest and noting
that you have been givem accurate advice.
Is there anmything you don't understand?
#Post#: 54307--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN Newham Council for loading bay (unmarked with inadequate
signage)
DIR By: RoutineSystem4728
Date: January 21, 2025, 3:36 am
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I was responding to the Enceladus response saying see what
others have to say when he was the only responding. Fortunately
someone else did respond earlier.
I’m just wondering whether it would be better to appeal to the
adjudicator immediately or wait for the Order for Recovery.
Seeing these constant letters and reminders gives me anxiety,
that’s all, and the last thing that I want is bailiffs turning
up on my doorstep.
#Post#: 54333--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN Newham Council for loading bay (unmarked with inadequate
signage)
DIR By: Enceladus
Date: January 21, 2025, 8:51 am
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If you wait for the Order for Recovery then you can submit, to
the Traffic Enforcement Centre at Northampton County Court, the
Witness Statement that will be included. You can use the ground
of non-receipt of the Notice of Rejection to your formal
representation. Do it within the time limit and the TEC will
order the OfR revoked and the CC cancelled, so you'll be back to
a liability of £130. The case will be referred to the
Adjudicator for direction on how to proceed. Likely the case
will be heard as an appeal. Since there doesn't seem to be a
properly formatted NoR I would expect the Adjudicator to uphold
your appeal and you would have nothing to pay. There are several
other procedural mistakes especially the serving of the Charge
Cert before they were allowed to.
But if you lose you would be liable for £129. Right now it looks
you can close the case for £64.
Stick with the process and there won't be any bailiff
enforcement.
The key issue for the Adjudicator will be whether or not a
formal representation was submitted and delivered to the Council
on or before the 13th of Jan. On the one hand the answer seems
to be yes as you have an email confirming they received a
representation. On the other hand it may be that you did not
submit in the manner specified on the NTO.
"I submitted the representation via the Council website and was
given a code in return for my appeal. I have a screenshot of
this. I no longer have the full text for my full representation,
however, I used the following for the main body of my Grounds of
Appeal."
Please post up the "screenshot"? Blank out your name and address
and leave the rest visible. And please let's see the email or
letter with the code "for my appeal". Or was that another
screenshot?
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