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#Post#: 53466--------------------------------------------------
PCN Newham Council for loading bay (unmarked with inadequate
signage)
DIR By: RoutineSystem4728
Date: January 15, 2025, 8:28 am
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Hi all,
Last year, in June, I received a PCN for parking on a loading
bay (please find picture attached to this post).
To begin with, the PCN was issued on a Sunday. On that specific
day, I entered into the road and looked for signs to see whether
there were any parking restrictions. As you can see from the
photos, the loading bay mark on the floor was barely visible
There were also two black road sign posts, one of which did not
contain any signs whatsoever. The road sign post which contained
the actual loading bay sign was covered by overgrown bushes. I
genuinely did not see the sign. Given that it was a Sunday, and
the fact that there was inadequate signage, I decided to park in
the bay.
When I received the PCN on the day, I immediately checked
evidence on the Newham Council PCN portal. I saw that there was
a charge of £1, which I paid. This is where I probably went
wrong, as I thought I could get away with paying £1 for a PCN,
and had a out of sight out of mind mentality. I did not receive
any notification of an escalated penalty charge for the next 30
days, and assumed that the PCN had gone away. Rookie mistake.
In December, I received a higher charge PCN saying that the PCN
doubled from £64 to £129. At this point I appealed on the
grounds that the Council failed to maintain adequate road
signage, and the loading bay was also unmarked. I stated that
the Council have a responsibility to maintain clear signs, and
this was in accordance with Regulation 18 of The Local
Authorities' Traffic Orders (Procedure) (England and Wales)
Regulations 1996.
I received no response from the Council, and in January I
received a Charge Notice. I notified the Council that I received
no response to my appeal, after which they wrote back to me via
e-mail stating that the they had sent the letter notifying me
that the appeal failed. The letter was attached to the e-mail
and dated 23 December 2024. I have a feeling that this letter
was backdated, as I received both the higher PCN charge and the
charge notice, but somehow did not receive this.
Anyways, the reasoning that was given was the following:
"I can confirm that there is a sign at the location and your
vehicle was parked next to the sign (IMG_1053.jpg)
Our records indicate that a payment for the sum of £1 was
received in settlement of the above PCN. Therefore £64 remains
outstanding".
The council have stated that as a gesture of goodwill, they will
revert the price of the PCN back to £64 and I have two weeks to
pay. My question is, is it worth appealing this and taking this
matter further and if so, what will the process be like? I don't
mind paying the reduced PCN, but it seems as though the council
are in the wrong here as they failed to maintain clear signs.
From the pictures, you can see that the sign was clearly being
covered by the bushes. It's ridiculous that the council expect
us to study these signs when they fail to maintain basic
standard themselves. On top of that the loading bay mark on the
floor was also not visible.
I would greatly appreciate any advice/help on the best way
forward with this PCN.
Thank you.
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 53482--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN Newham Council for loading bay (unmarked with inadequate
signage)
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: January 15, 2025, 10:00 am
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We need to see all the documents to decide.
#Post#: 53757--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN Newham Council for loading bay (unmarked with inadequate
signage)
DIR By: RoutineSystem4728
Date: January 17, 2025, 3:33 am
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Apologies, please find all notices attached and response from
council regarding appeal. Thank you.
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 53766--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN Newham Council for loading bay (unmarked with inadequate
signage)
DIR By: Enceladus
Date: January 17, 2025, 4:30 am
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Please look at the READ THIS FIRST - **BEFORE POSTING YOUR
CASE!**
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/<br
/>sticky post at the top of the Forum.
You were told to only redact your name & address and to leave
the vehicle reg and the PCN number visible. So please get that
corrected.
The NTO is for £129 and should be £130.
The Charge Certificate is for £194 and should be £195.
The Charge Certificate is dated Jan 7th and that appears to be
too early as the NTO was issued on the 13th Dec.
In addition there's a Notice of Rejection dated 23rd Dec which
the OP says re-offers the discount payment but at £64 instead of
£65.
And the NoR should still be in-time to submit an appeal.
Please post up all sides of all pages of the Notice of
Rejection.
#Post#: 53774--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN Newham Council for loading bay (unmarked with inadequate
signage)
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: January 17, 2025, 5:27 am
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--- Quote from: Enceladus link ---
>
> Please look at the READ THIS FIRST - **BEFORE POSTING YOUR
CASE!**
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/<br
/>sticky post at the top of the Forum.
>
> You were told to only redact your name & address and to leave
the vehicle reg and the PCN number visible. So please get that
corrected.
>
> The NTO is for £129 and should be £130.
> The Charge Certificate is for £194 and should be £195.
> The Charge Certificate is dated Jan 7th and that appears to be
too early as the NTO was issued on the 13th Dec.
>
> In addition there's a Notice of Rejection dated 23rd Dec which
the OP says re-offers the discount payment but at £64 instead of
£65.
> And the NoR should still be in-time to submit an appeal.
>
> Please post up all sides of all pages of the Notice of
Rejection.
>
--- End Quote ---
What on earth are they smoking in Newham council !
Looks like a serious enough error to be a procedural impropriety
within the TMA 2004 regulations
#Post#: 53803--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN Newham Council for loading bay (unmarked with inadequate
signage)
DIR By: RoutineSystem4728
Date: January 17, 2025, 8:08 am
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Thank you for your response and forgive me for not reading the
guidelines accurately. I have attached both sides of the Notice
of Charge, with the PCN number and number plate of the car made
visible.
The reason why there is a £1 deduction is highlighted on the
third paragraph of my main post, but I’ll write it down here
anyway. When I first received the PCN I immediately checked the
PCN portal on the council website and saw a charge of £1. I
assumed this might be the total price so I paid it and had an
out of sight out of mind mentality. I didn’t receive anything
for the next 30 days so assumed that the PCN was discharged but
unfortunately received the Notice of Charge (attached to this
comment) early in December. I guess this was more like temporary
charge, until the council fully updated the PCN.
Given that the appeal cannot be dismissed, what would the next
steps be in this case. Also out of curiosity, what’s your
opinion on the matter overall in regards to the loading bay
being unmarked and the road sign posts covered due to the
overgrown bushes.
Thank you for your help. It’s much appreciated.
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 53804--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN Newham Council for loading bay (unmarked with inadequate
signage)
DIR By: RoutineSystem4728
Date: January 17, 2025, 8:11 am
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They’re crooks and cowboys for sure. If you have a look at the
response they sent me, it looks as if they backdated the letter.
Just another council trying to rob the locals through PCNs.
#Post#: 53816--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN Newham Council for loading bay (unmarked with inadequate
signage)
DIR By: Enceladus
Date: January 17, 2025, 8:37 am
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[member=4056]RoutineSystem4728[/member]
We need to see all of the pages of the Notice of Rejection.
That's the letter dated 23rd Dec 2024.
From that we should be able to confirm the best way forward
which I suspect will be to submit an appeal to the independent
Adjudicator. Likely on the basis of "procedural impropriety, in
respect of the pre-mature Charge Certificate
I know the £1 discrepancy is because you managed to pay £1. Did
you happen to keep a screenshot?
#Post#: 53821--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN Newham Council for loading bay (unmarked with inadequate
signage)
DIR By: RoutineSystem4728
Date: January 17, 2025, 9:05 am
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Apologies yet again, you can clearly see that I’m a rookie here.
I have attached both pages of the Notice of Rejection.
Fortunately, I also have the screenshot for the £1 charge which
I paid. Please find attached.
Thank you for providing the process for appeal. Given that you
are satisfied there’s grounds of appeal post reviewing the NoR,
am I correct in that the appeal to the independent adjudicator
should be done through the London Tribunal Appeals portal?
#Post#: 53823--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN Newham Council for loading bay (unmarked with inadequate
signage)
DIR By: RoutineSystem4728
Date: January 17, 2025, 9:07 am
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Apologies yet again, you can clearly see that I’m a rookie here.
I have attached both pages of the Notice of Rejection.
Fortunately, I also have the screenshot for the £1 charge which
I paid. Please find attached.
Thank you for providing the process for appeal. Given that you
are satisfied there’s grounds of appeal post reviewing the NoR,
am I correct in that the appeal to the independent adjudicator
should be done through the London Tribunal Appeals portal?
[attachment deleted by admin]
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