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#Post#: 53613--------------------------------------------------
Re: LB Havering, code 62, one wheel over a "footpath"
DIR By: Mike_D
Date: January 16, 2025, 6:36 am
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Guys, I decided to add the key phrases from
[member=2249]stamfordman[/member] (thanks!) into my rationale
after all.
I added the link to The Gazette just in case they tried to
dispute the "off-streetness" of the car park.
Dear Sir/Madam,
I have received a PCN for an alleged contravention of parking
“with one or more wheels on a footpath”, code 62 (an on-street
contravention).
The alleged on-street contravention of footway parking cannot
have occurred as my car was parked in Market Place, one of your
off-street car parks:
HTML https://www.thegazette.co.uk/notice/4681461
.
I parked my car there at 18:20 on 14/01/2025 on western part of
Market Place, adjacent to North Street.
Additionally, according to the Conditions of Use of the car
park, a vehicle should not be parked “beyond the bay markings”.
However, this area of the square has no clearly marked parking
spaces that a vehicle should be parked at. Such bay markings are
clearly visible on the other part of Market Place, where white
and yellow lines leave no doubt about it, but the area near
North Street has no such lines. There are just some decorative
patterns of cobblestone and stone slabs, which are hardly
visible after dark and in wet conditions. I have parked there
for the first time ever and it didn’t even cross my mind that
anything there might be considered as “bay markings”. I just
parked my car near several other cars parking in a similar
manner, not posing any danger or being an obstacle for
pedestrians or other vehicles.
My alleged “contravention”, according to the CEO, is probably
having one wheel parked on 10 cm of just another type of
cobblestone, which can hardly be considered as a separate
footpath at all (the actual footpath, where people do walk, is
alongside the shops and North Street, very far away from any
parked cars). No parking beyond any visible bay markings
occurred as well.
Please find the attached pictures of the position of my car.
Given the:
-
-
parked my car
-
I look forward to your early confirmation of cancellation.
Best regards,
Does it look alright?
#Post#: 53629--------------------------------------------------
Re: LB Havering, code 62, one wheel over a "footpath"
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: January 16, 2025, 7:27 am
---------------------------------------------------------
What you're doing is mutually exclusive - saying the
contravention cannot have occurred but it did occur and was
trivial.
In an off-street car park there is no such thing as footway
parking. As you've deduced a correct contravention could be:
86 Not parked correctly within the markings of a bay or space
Anyway no one else has chipped in apart from Mick who rightly
says some car park areas can be on-street but I really don't
think Market Place is one.
There is no rush so wait for other views.
#Post#: 53633--------------------------------------------------
Re: LB Havering, code 62, one wheel over a "footpath"
DIR By: mickR
Date: January 16, 2025, 7:38 am
---------------------------------------------------------
personally I would go with the wrong contravention code argument
and see what they come back with, and leave out the de minimus
argument for later.
#Post#: 53644--------------------------------------------------
Re: LB Havering, code 62, one wheel over a "footpath"
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: January 16, 2025, 8:44 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I recall now that Market Place is barred to motorised vehicles
as a pedestrian and cycle zone on Weds, Fri, Sat and Sun 6am-7pm
apart from permit holders.
As a car park it's only open for certain operational times on
other days and not overnight on some days.
#Post#: 53645--------------------------------------------------
Re: LB Havering, code 62, one wheel over a "footpath"
DIR By: Mike_D
Date: January 16, 2025, 8:49 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: stamfordman link ---
>
> What you're doing is mutually exclusive - saying the
contravention cannot have occurred but it did occur and was
trivial.
>
> In an off-street car park there is no such thing as footway
parking. As you've deduced a correct contravention could be:
>
> 86 Not parked correctly within the markings of a bay or space
>
> Anyway no one else has chipped in apart from Mick who rightly
says some car park areas can be on-street but I really don't
think Market Place is one.
>
> There is no rush so wait for other views.
>
--- End Quote ---
Indeed, fair point!
Though I used the word "alleged" and put contravention in
caption marks, maybe irony and sarcasm is not the right way
here...
Apart from The Gazette, I have found another clue that this
really is an off-street parking – RingGo website also classifies
it as such too:
HTML https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/6vtza359m4mfmlwa79bun/RingGo.JPG?rlkey=niwbgae6rnuldgamp4n6am56y&st=6et1r2vo&dl=0
#Post#: 53658--------------------------------------------------
Re: LB Havering, code 62, one wheel over a "footpath"
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: January 16, 2025, 9:53 am
---------------------------------------------------------
It's an unusual situation as it's a part-time off-street car
park but at other times it appears to be a zone subject to a
motorised vehicle ban and a 20mph speed limit, albeit only for
permit holders whom I presume are traders.
At the time of your PCN - 18:55 on Monday - the car park was
operational.
#Post#: 53666--------------------------------------------------
Re: LB Havering, code 62, one wheel over a "footpath"
DIR By: Mike_D
Date: January 16, 2025, 10:28 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Yup, exactly.
The irony here was that I got back to the car at 18:58 in order
not to get a PCN for overstaying, but instead I got a PCN for
parking on a wrong kind of cobblestone ::)
PS That was Tuesday, but doesn't matter in this case - the car
park was operational at the time.
#Post#: 53775--------------------------------------------------
Re: LB Havering, code 62, one wheel over a "footpath"
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: January 17, 2025, 5:28 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Sorry Tuesday. Just 5 mins before it became non-operational but
you would have got 10 mins grace if paid up til 7pm.
Note that Havering does not reoffer the discount if it rejects
but I really do think this is a wrong contravention.
#Post#: 54375--------------------------------------------------
Re: LB Havering, code 62, one wheel over a "footpath"
DIR By: Mike_D
Date: January 21, 2025, 1:01 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
OK guys, as I don't think anyone more will chip in, I'll go with
the wrong contravention approach, leaving the triviality
argument for later - if they refuse.
Cheers!
#Post#: 61472--------------------------------------------------
Re: LB Havering, code 62, one wheel over a "footpath"
DIR By: Mike_D
Date: March 9, 2025, 11:49 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Hello guys!
Back to the topic - yesterday I received their response to my
appeal. They have rejected it...
Here it is:
Page 1
HTML https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/wdyoy2tdwrj47w6lzjmoy/inf_appeal_rej_page1.jpg?rlkey=dzy20bfhmebebhydpbkpj9ze2&st=pn77udfv&dl=0
Page 2
HTML https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/gdq83imdqx6b0bcjccdtz/inf_appeal_rej_page2.jpg?rlkey=0whdcktvbbwitj1klj9lngzhm&st=gf81nya3&dl=0
What do I do now?
Should I wait for the NTO (I am not the owner, my wife is, and
we have different surnames) or should I go directly to the
London Tribunals (on my own behalf)?
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