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#Post#: 54169--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN 21: Suspended Bay. Royal Greenwich.
DIR By: JoCo
Date: January 20, 2025, 5:56 am
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--- Quote from: H C Andersen link ---
>
> How do you know you were in contravention at 9.20, the sign
doesn't say anything about extent of restriction. Was it 0001- H
hour or 0900 to 0915 and was it only on 10th or what?
>
> IMO, the sign is defective as it doesn't give hours or days.
>
--- End Quote ---
I would have thought that if no time explicit time is given on a
dated suspension sign, then the assumption should be whole 24
hours.
However I had a little delve into the internet to find out if
the sign is compliant. The following may give me a get out.
The Traffic Signs, Regulations and General Directions 2016 do
not define the yellow suspension sign used by most enforcement
authorities to control parking.
Hence it is necessary for enforcement authorities to seek DfT
authorisation for such signs, under Sections 64 and 65 of the
Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984.
Someone did a FOI request to DOT to establish this in 2020.
HTML https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/authority_for_parking_suspension
HTML https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/authority_for_parking_suspension
We encourage authorities to apply for an authorisation for their
parking
suspension signs which permits their use at any appropriate
location on their
roads. The authorisation specifies the information that can be
shown on the
sign, and its size, colour and character. All authorisations for
this traffic sign
which have been issued since 1 January 2011 may be viewed on the
Department’s authorisation database at:
The reply included a list of enforcement authorities who have
DfT authorisation.
There is no sign of Greenwich, or indeed any authorities,
seeking authorisation for suspension signs.
www.dft.gov.uk/traffic-auths/
HTML http://www.dft.gov.uk/traffic-auths/
There is a case in London Tribunals which won on similar basis.
Case from 2010
HTML https://view.officeapps.live.com/op/view.aspx?src=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.londontribunals.gov.uk%2Fsites%2Fdefault%2Ffiles%2Fkeycases%2FCampbell%2520v%2520Camden.doc%253B%2520Suspension%2520of%2520controls.doc%253B%2520signage.doc%253B%2520requirement%2520for%2520compliant%2520sign.doc&wdOrigin=BROWSELINK
#Post#: 54176--------------------------------------------------
TMO - How to get it
DIR By: JoCo
Date: January 20, 2025, 6:12 am
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Quick query.
How do I get a TMO for a Residents bay? Royal Borough of
Greenwich.
Excuse ignorance, I have never requested one before.
Is this done by a FOI? Or an email to Council traffic dept?
I hear references on this forum about the Gazette? Is this where
the TMOs are published?
#Post#: 54223--------------------------------------------------
Re: TMO - How to get it
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: January 20, 2025, 11:24 am
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All published here:
HTML https://redbridge.traffweb.app/traffweb/1/TrafficOrders
You can search by street name / number, click on the restriction
you want to look at and then click "view documents" and "order
document". I also keep a backup copy of The Greenwich
(Charged-For Parking Places) Order 2018
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Xu2aSCOjY2c708_9igCLKv5PT47JRGkn/view<br
/>but for the map tiles, you'll have to get them from traffweb.
#Post#: 54225--------------------------------------------------
Re: TMO - How to get it
DIR By: andy_foster
Date: January 20, 2025, 11:53 am
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Does this relate to your suspended residents' bay thread?
#Post#: 54302--------------------------------------------------
Re: TMO - How to get it
DIR By: JoCo
Date: January 21, 2025, 2:46 am
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Yes Andy, but as this is a general query that might be useful to
others I posted here.
{ note to viewers, I originally posted this question in Flame
Pit ]
#Post#: 54303--------------------------------------------------
Re: TMO - How to get it
DIR By: JoCo
Date: January 21, 2025, 2:47 am
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--- Quote from: cp8759 link ---
>
> All published here:
HTML https://redbridge.traffweb.app/traffweb/1/TrafficOrders
>
> You can search by street name / number, click on the
restriction you want to look at and then click "view documents"
and "order document". I also keep a backup copy of The Greenwich
(Charged-For Parking Places) Order 2018
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Xu2aSCOjY2c708_9igCLKv5PT47JRGkn/view<br
/>but for the map tiles, you'll have to get them from traffweb.
>
--- End Quote ---
Thank you CP.
But did you mean Redbridge? (which is freely readable)
When I try
HTML https://greenwich.traffweb.app/traffweb/1/TrafficOrders
HTML https://greenwich.traffweb.app/traffweb/1/TrafficOrders
I get a
log on prompt. I have tried to register. This is being
approved. Is this a staff page?
#Post#: 54306--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN 21: Suspended Bay. Royal Greenwich.
DIR By: JoCo
Date: January 21, 2025, 3:32 am
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The Greenwich (Charged-For Parking Places) Order 2018
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Xu2aSCOjY2c708_9igCLKv5PT47JRGkn/view<br
/>
Has the following relevant section on suspended bays, given the
suspension reason was defined as "works" on the suspension
notice:
(3) Any person duly authorised by the Council or the
Commissioner of Police of the Metropolis
may suspend the use of a parking place or any part thereof
whenever he considers such suspension
reasonably necessary:
(b) for the purpose of any building operation, demolition or
excavation adjacent to or in the
near vicinity of the parking place, the maintenance, improvement
or reconstruction of
the highway or the cleaning of gullies in or adjacent to or in
the near vicinity of the
parking place, the laying, ****, alteration or repair in or
adjacent to or in the near
vicinity of the parking place of any sewer or of any main, pipe
or apparatus for the
supply of gas, water or electricity or of any electronic
communications network or the
placing, maintenance or removal of any traffic sign;
(5) On the suspension of the use of a parking place or any part
thereof in accordance with the
provisions of this Article, the person authorising or causing
such suspension shall place or cause to be
placed in or adjacent to that parking place or that part
thereof, as the case may be, a traffic sign indicating
that waiting by vehicles is prohibited:
I await the actual TMO. But it seems that from the above the
council have not shot themselves in the foot by requiring a
compliant warning sign - which does not exist. See London
Borough of Camden Case No. : 2090523567 link above - but simply
a "traffic sign indicating that waiting by vehicles is
prohibited".
As the same case also says:
In cases of bay suspensions I and many other adjudicators have
taken the view that provided the Council can prove that the bay
was lawfully authorised for suspension, and that there was a
sign or signs properly sited which gave a clear indication of
that fact, the motorist parking there will be in contravention.
#Post#: 54888--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN 21: Suspended Bay. Royal Greenwich.
DIR By: JoCo
Date: January 24, 2025, 6:13 am
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OK. So I got the standard fob-off rejection of my informal
challenge.
Worth my while continuing this and risking 50%?
The only thing which strikes me is the comment:
"[Temporary suspension signs] have been checked and we can
confirm that they are correct and in line with the regulations."
Which begs the question what regulations? as AFAIK suspension
signs are not defined.
I have applied FOI for the TMO and the suspension request.
HTML https://i.imgur.com/50QCYrg.jpg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/g3loMyZ.jpg
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