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#Post#: 57081--------------------------------------------------
Re: BARNET - PCN - 50L PERFORMING A PROHIBITED TURN (NO LEFT
TURN) - TILLING RD JUNCTION BRENTFIELD GARDENS (NW2)
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: February 7, 2025, 7:55 am
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I've sent you a PM.
#Post#: 94671--------------------------------------------------
Re: BARNET - PCN - 50L PERFORMING A PROHIBITED TURN (NO LEFT
TURN) - TILLING RD JUNCTION BRENTFIELD GARDENS (NW2)
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: October 18, 2025, 7:51 pm
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Outcome
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1nQlu0kbGwEvoOIadtk58IlkCRoEcDLMb/view.
#Post#: 94673--------------------------------------------------
Re: BARNET - PCN - 50L PERFORMING A PROHIBITED TURN (NO LEFT
TURN) - TILLING RD JUNCTION BRENTFIELD GARDENS (NW2)
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: October 19, 2025, 1:49 am
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Well done.
IMO, the correct entry in the Schedule is 57 which refers to
Tilling Rd.
As observed previously, it's item 57 of the second set of
specified roads which misleadingly appear under a London Borough
of Barking and Dagenham heading, but this poor piece of drafting
cannot change the location of or responsibility for the roads.
Page 9
57 NORTH CIRCULAR ROAD (A406) OFF SLIP ROAD, the south side from
a point 3
metres south-west of the extended north easternmost building
line of Garden Court Hotel, Tilling Road to its roundabout
junction with the unnamed M1 Motorway slip roads
It seems to me that the prohibition refers to the road being
turned from, not the road being turned into, and this would seem
to be confirmed by the authority's TMO, therefore I believe that
item 57 page 9 is the applicable reference. Either way, the
authority is in a complete state of denial hence my suggestion
to the OP in the current thread on this location to write to the
Chief Exec and put an end to this apparent abuse of power.
#Post#: 94682--------------------------------------------------
Re: BARNET - PCN - 50L PERFORMING A PROHIBITED TURN (NO LEFT
TURN) - TILLING RD JUNCTION BRENTFIELD GARDENS (NW2)
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: October 19, 2025, 6:37 am
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I thought so for a very long time, I even won some appears based
on it being item 57, but based on some new information I
received from a member of the public it cannot be item 57. It's
badly written, but what it actually means is this (red text
added):
[indent]
57 NORTH CIRCULAR ROAD (A406) OFF SLIP ROAD, the south side from
a point 3 metres south-west of the extended north easternmost
building line of the Garden Court Hotel (which is on Tilling
Road) to its roundabout junction with the unnamed M1 Motorway
slip roads[/indent]
The Garden Court Hotel is now the Holiday Inn London - Brent
Cross by IHG
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/3NDGDXkwdZmg7TqL6,
and the northeastern
most building line is highlighted in red in the image below,
with the road referenced by item 57 highlighted in green:
HTML https://cdn.imgpile.com/f/nh9o1ci_xl.png
I would add that the words "to its junction with Brentfield
Gardens" in item 45 are open to interpretation at best, so this
isn't something I would rely on unless the discount is lost
anyway and there's nothing else to argue.
#Post#: 94693--------------------------------------------------
Re: BARNET - PCN - 50L PERFORMING A PROHIBITED TURN (NO LEFT
TURN) - TILLING RD JUNCTION BRENTFIELD GARDENS (NW2)
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: October 19, 2025, 8:09 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Noted, but the Order states what it states and has been extant
for the best part of 20 years during which IMO it was open to
Barnet and the GLA to amend. Absent such an amendment, IMO it
would be improper for an adjudicator to put their own
construction on to a provision which otherwise seems clear.
What's the alternative? That Barnet and GLA have colluded to put
their own spin on to an Order. FFS, where could this end and
where might it leave the average driver who can read but is not
party to these clandestine arrangements.
And to cap it, why have Barnet never adduced this reasoning
themselves but simply slunk away when their position has been
challenged?
#Post#: 94702--------------------------------------------------
Re: BARNET - PCN - 50L PERFORMING A PROHIBITED TURN (NO LEFT
TURN) - TILLING RD JUNCTION BRENTFIELD GARDENS (NW2)
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: October 19, 2025, 9:45 am
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--- Quote from: H C Andersen link ---
>
> Noted, but the Order states what it states and has been extant
for the best part of 20 years during which IMO it was open to
Barnet and the GLA to amend. Absent such an amendment, IMO it
would be improper for an adjudicator to put their own
construction on to a provision which otherwise seems clear.
>
--- End Quote ---
But both items 45 and 57 are clear once you look at the
geography of the location.
--- Quote from: H C Andersen link ---
>
> What's the alternative? That Barnet and GLA have colluded to
put their own spin on to an Order. FFS, where could this end and
where might it leave the average driver who can read but is not
party to these clandestine arrangements.
>
--- End Quote ---
What clandestine arrangements? One could say that drivers should
simply comply with the signage, which is not in itself an
outrageous suggestion. The reality is that there are no
clandestine arrangements, and neither Barnet nor TFL know what
they're doing.
--- Quote from: H C Andersen link ---
>
> And to cap it, why have Barnet never adduced this reasoning
themselves but simply slunk away when their position has been
challenged?
>
--- End Quote ---
Because they're thick?
#Post#: 94704--------------------------------------------------
Re: BARNET - PCN - 50L PERFORMING A PROHIBITED TURN (NO LEFT
TURN) - TILLING RD JUNCTION BRENTFIELD GARDENS (NW2)
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: October 19, 2025, 10:15 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I'm still unclear what Barnet's position is.
Is it that Tilling Road is not a GLA Road or that it is and they
have TfL's authority?
If they were confident of their position, then why leave matters
as they are and constantly lose at adjudication by virtue of not
adducing evidence even when asked explicitly by adjudicators.
More questions than answers, I'm afraid.
#Post#: 94705--------------------------------------------------
Re: BARNET - PCN - 50L PERFORMING A PROHIBITED TURN (NO LEFT
TURN) - TILLING RD JUNCTION BRENTFIELD GARDENS (NW2)
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: October 19, 2025, 10:18 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: H C Andersen link ---
>
> Is it that Tilling Road is not a GLA Road or that it is and
they have TfL's authority?
>
--- End Quote ---
Barnet's position is that Tilling Road is only a GLA road up to
the point where the red route clearway ends, and that because
the junction is past that point the portion of Tilling Road
where they enforce is not a GLA road.
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