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#Post#: 52458--------------------------------------------------
Smart Parking PCN - Failure to pay for sufficient time
DIR By: darkpolar
Date: January 8, 2025, 10:48 am
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Hi all,
realised after reading a few posts here that I should probably
post the case way before I take any actions, but we are where we
are and hopefully can still receive some advices.
In August, I parked in the Turner contemporary art gallery car
park in Margate, it was Monday and the art gallery was closed
and the parking was almost empty, but we went there for a walk
on the beach. Upon checking the signage, the parking is still to
be paid even on days Art gallery is closed, so I paid using
RingGo for 2h, (although I struggle with this as I had to
download the app and there were almost no signals). Played with
dog and kids on the beach, and when time was up, we did came
back to the carpark just a couple of minutes late. But having
not seen any traffic warden (and I never experienced those kind
of smart parking before), and an even emptier car park, we took
our time to dry the dog and get sands off our shoes before
leaving the parking. Toping up did cross my mind, but RingGo
didn't seem to give me option to pay more once the session has
ended.
Anyway, a few weeks later I received the attached PCN saying I
overstayed by 27 min. (arrival time 12:35 - departure time
15:02, my Ringgo payment history shows I paid for 12:45-14:45.)
[attach=1][attach=2]
Although I recognise it is a case of overstay, I felt hard done
by and disproportionate penalty as I did pay the parking for 120
min out of 147 min, getting a PCN of £100 as if I have not paid
at all. So hoping for some common sense, I used their appeal
system, which was rejected a couple of weeks later, with the
following message
Thank you for your recent communication.
Having considered your appeal in detail we have decided to
uphold the Parking Charge as we believe that it was correctly
issued in accordance with the terms and conditions advertised
within the area concerned. As your appeal was received within
the initial discount period we have extended the discount period
until 15/10/2024.
We note the comments made within your appeal, however we cannot
rescind the PC on this basis. We wish to confirm that the
contravention of insufficient paid time occurred as our system
confirms that whilst 120 were purchased were purchased against
Vehicle Registration Mark (VRM) xxx, your vehicle remained on
site for 147 minutes. The signage onsite clearly informs
motorist that they are required to purchase a valid ticket for
the full duration of their vehicles stay onsite. Furthermore,
additional time can be purchased at any point during throughout
your vehicles stay, before exiting the car park, allowing for
any unexpected overstays due to circumstances such as those
outlined in your appeal.
We wish to inform that the car park in question is operated by
ANPR cameras system which captures images of your vehicle
entering and exiting the site, which subsequently calculates
your total stay duration. This information is then paired with
the information entered into the payment machine/alternate
payment option, to establish whether or not the correct payment
has been made against the full and correct vehicle registration
for the total duration the vehicle is on site - this is
calculated from the time of entrance to the time of exit.
As the vehicle was on site in excess of the parking time
purchased and no valid additional payments were made to cover
the entire parking duration, we wish to advised that the
advertised Terms and Conditions were breached. Subsequently the
PC has been issued correctly. The Terms and Conditions of the
car park are clearly advertised around the site and must be
adhered to by all drivers.
You have now reached the end of our internal appeals procedure
and therefore you now have two options, you can pay or appeal -
you cannot do both.
If the Parking Charge was issued in England and Wales you also
have the right of appeal to an independent appeals service
(POPLA). If you wish to make an appeal to POPLA the forms are
available on their website at www.popla.co.uk
...
So I did lodge an appeal at Popla, hoping for less profit
oriented more balanced people would have better common sense,
but after waiting for 2 months, this also get rejected a couple
of weeks ago, see case letter attached.
[attach=3]
So at this point, any advice appreciated, I just want to
understand if it is still worth fighting the case, and if so,
what further actions can I take?
thanks in advance
PS: There some pictures of signages submitted by SmartParking to
POPLA but it seems I can't access them anymore on Popla since
case is closed (they were not helpful in any sense as it just
say you have to pay for the duration). Google map also not
useful for signage as it pre-dated the parking completion I
suppose.
HTML https://www.google.com/maps/@51.3914381,1.3818267,3a,75y,40.56h,71.82t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s8c_G0TToEK5fd5595JD2pg!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D18.184981950631283%26panoid%3D8c_G0TToEK5fd5595JD2pg%26yaw%3D40.563165920133144!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI1MDEwMi4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 52461--------------------------------------------------
Re: Smart Parking PCN - Failure to pay for sufficient time
DIR By: mickR
Date: January 8, 2025, 10:59 am
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shame you didn't cone here for advice first!
I assume you revealed the identity of the driver to (not so)
smart parking?
#Post#: 52462--------------------------------------------------
Re: Smart Parking PCN - Failure to pay for sufficient time
DIR By: mickR
Date: January 8, 2025, 11:02 am
---------------------------------------------------------
and you paid for 2hrs but stayed for 2 1/2 hrs?
#Post#: 52463--------------------------------------------------
Re: Smart Parking PCN - Failure to pay for sufficient time
DIR By: b789
Date: January 8, 2025, 11:05 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Oh dear. What a pity you hadn't come here for advice before
appealing. (not so) Smart Parking are one of the easiest to
defeat as they do not rely on PoFA to be able to hold the Keeper
liable if the driver is not identified. They have no idea who
the driver is and unless the Keeper blabs its inadvertently or
otherwise, they have nowhere else to go with this.
However, you are where you are, having blown the 'golden
ticket'. The POPLA decision is not binding on you and so, do not
pay them.
You are now in a sort of limbo state. You will start to receive
debt collector letters which you must ignore. The debt
collectors are powerless to do anything, no matter how scary
they sound. They are not a party to the contract allegedly
breached by the driver. Never, ever, communicate or respond to a
debt collector. You can safely ignore them.
Eventually, you will receive a Letter of Claim (LoC) from their
bulk litigator of choice, usually DCB Legal. After the LoC you
will receive an actual N1SDT Claim Form from the CNBC. This must
be responded to.
Once the claim is defended, in due course they will eventually
discontinue. Their modus operandi is well known and they will
not go as far as a hearing, rather relying on you being low
hanging fruit on the gullible tree and more likely to pay up out
of ignorance and/or fear. Don't pay a penny, they will
discontinue.
We don't need to see any debt collector letters but do show us
the LoC and eventually the actual Claim Form when they arrive so
that we can advise accordingly.
#Post#: 52468--------------------------------------------------
Re: Smart Parking PCN - Failure to pay for sufficient time
DIR By: darkpolar
Date: January 8, 2025, 11:16 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: mickR link ---
>
> and you paid for 2hrs but stayed for 2 1/2 hrs?
>
--- End Quote ---
yeah paid 120 min out of the 147 min
#Post#: 52470--------------------------------------------------
Re: Smart Parking PCN - Failure to pay for sufficient time
DIR By: darkpolar
Date: January 8, 2025, 11:18 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: mickR link ---
>
> shame you didn't cone here for advice first!
>
> I assume you revealed the identity of the driver to (not so)
smart parking?
>
--- End Quote ---
yeah, realised I should have researched more. but yes, I believe
so, in my appeal to them I used "I" (paid) a lot...
#Post#: 52471--------------------------------------------------
Re: Smart Parking PCN - Failure to pay for sufficient time
DIR By: b789
Date: January 8, 2025, 11:19 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Doesn't matter. Wait for the claim, defend and they will
discontinue. Don't waste your time on anything else and get on
with your life in the meantime.
#Post#: 52474--------------------------------------------------
Re: Smart Parking PCN - Failure to pay for sufficient time
DIR By: darkpolar
Date: January 8, 2025, 11:23 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: b789 link ---
>
> Oh dear. What a pity you hadn't come here for advice before
appealing. (not so) Smart Parking are one of the easiest to
defeat as they do not rely on PoFA to be able to hold the Keeper
liable if the driver is not identified. They have no idea who
the driver is and unless the Keeper blabs its inadvertently or
otherwise, they have nowhere else to go with this.
>
> However, you are where you are, having blown the 'golden
ticket'. The POPLA decision is not binding on you and so, do not
pay them.
>
> You are now in a sort of limbo state. You will start to
receive debt collector letters which you must ignore. The debt
collectors are powerless to do anything, no matter how scary
they sound. They are not a party to the contract allegedly
breached by the driver. Never, ever, communicate or respond to a
debt collector. You can safely ignore them.
>
> Eventually, you will receive a Letter of Claim (LoC) from
their bulk litigator of choice, usually DCB Legal. After the LoC
you will receive an actual N1SDT Claim Form from the CNBC. This
must be responded to.
>
> Once the claim is defended, in due course they will eventually
discontinue. Their modus operandi is well known and they will
not go as far as a hearing, rather relying on you being low
hanging fruit on the gullible tree and more likely to pay up out
of ignorance and/or fear. Don't pay a penny, they will
discontinue.
>
> We don't need to see any debt collector letters but do show us
the LoC and eventually the actual Claim Form when they arrive so
that we can advise accordingly.
>
--- End Quote ---
yes, I am gutted not finding this forum before... understood
regarding ignoring the debt collectors and hold on till the LoC.
But any chance that might somehow impact the credit score?
thanks a lot
#Post#: 52478--------------------------------------------------
Re: Smart Parking PCN - Failure to pay for sufficient time
DIR By: b789
Date: January 8, 2025, 11:26 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: darkpolar link ---
>
> understood regarding ignoring the debt collectors and hold on
till the LoC. But any chance that might somehow impact the
credit score?
--- End Quote ---
Absolutely not. We would never advise anything that could result
in a CCJ.
As I mentioned, they are relying on you being low-hanging fruit
on the gullible tree and you have just shown why. You obviously
do not understand how the process works and assuming that your
credit record could be affected by this is exactly what they
hope for.
#Post#: 52481--------------------------------------------------
Re: Smart Parking PCN - Failure to pay for sufficient time
DIR By: darkpolar
Date: January 8, 2025, 11:35 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Thanks! And how long does it take usually to reach the LoC
stage? a couple of months or more?
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