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#Post#: 52436--------------------------------------------------
Waltham Forest, Code 31 Entering and Stopping in a Box Junction
when Prohibited, Hoe St (E17) / Selbourne Rd (E17) CCTV
DIR By: willdudeuk
Date: January 8, 2025, 8:03 am
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Looking for some help (on the behalf of a friend) with the
following PCN for stopping in a box
junction.
As you can see from the images and video / CCTV the vehicle
stops partially in the yellow box junction
to allow oncoming traffic to turn right as the road ahead is
blocked.
Is there a way of contesting and overturning this PCN please?
[member=1]cp8759[/member] - when you get a moment please take a
look, thank you.
Google Maps Location Link
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/z1RCVFxTqByoP5P29
IMAGES
HTML https://i.imgur.com/SyD4jfA.jpeg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/waOMGXc.png
HTML https://i.imgur.com/H0cXM5F.png
HTML https://i.imgur.com/gFVEOAa.png
HTML https://i.imgur.com/ZKtEyP5.png
PCN Video Evidence
HTML https://youtu.be/WePL6jcRXVQ
#Post#: 52442--------------------------------------------------
Re: Waltham Forest, Code 31 Entering and Stopping in a Box
Junction when Prohibited, Hoe St (E17) / Selbourne Rd (E17) C
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: January 8, 2025, 8:45 am
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Looking at the video, it is plain to see that the contravention
did not occur. The contravention is only made out if the
motorist enters the box, then has to stop in the box due to the
presence of stationary vehicles.
Your friend should therefore submit representations on this
basis. They will, naturally, refuse them, at which point he will
have to decide whether to rely on our advice and take them to
London Tribunals, or just cough-up
#Post#: 52443--------------------------------------------------
Re: Waltham Forest, Code 31 Entering and Stopping in a Box
Junction when Prohibited, Hoe St (E17) / Selbourne Rd (E17) C
DIR By: mickR
Date: January 8, 2025, 8:52 am
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I agree no contravention. yet another example of the council
making the rules up to suit themselves rather than what the law
says.
#Post#: 52446--------------------------------------------------
Re: Waltham Forest, Code 31 Entering and Stopping in a Box
Junction when Prohibited, Hoe St (E17) / Selbourne Rd (E17) C
DIR By: willdudeuk
Date: January 8, 2025, 9:18 am
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Thank you [member=12]Incandescent[/member]
[member=75]mickR[/member] for your replies.
So when you say...
"The contravention is only made out if the motorist enters the
box, then has to stop in the box due to the presence of
stationary vehicles."
Why is that the case? Is that because the whole vehicle didn't
stop in the box junction? Ahead of the box junction there are
stationary vehicles. Think I am missing the point?
#Post#: 52447--------------------------------------------------
Re: Waltham Forest, Code 31 Entering and Stopping in a Box
Junction when Prohibited, Hoe St (E17) / Selbourne Rd (E17) C
DIR By: mickR
Date: January 8, 2025, 9:21 am
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no. the law says you must not cause you vehivle to stop in the
box "due to stationary vehicles"
in your instance there werent any and you had room to exit the
box the other side, therefore no contravention occurred.
FYI there is no provision in that law that prevents you stopping
in the box for any other reason ie having a picnic.
different legislation would cover that.
#Post#: 52449--------------------------------------------------
Re: Waltham Forest, Code 31 Entering and Stopping in a Box
Junction when Prohibited, Hoe St (E17) / Selbourne Rd (E17) C
DIR By: willdudeuk
Date: January 8, 2025, 9:24 am
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Thank you, so for my representation what should I put together /
write to the Council?
Simply no contravention occurred as per your explanation? Is
there anything I can reference where this comes from is it
highway code rule or similar?
#Post#: 52464--------------------------------------------------
Re: Waltham Forest, Code 31 Entering and Stopping in a Box
Junction when Prohibited, Hoe St (E17) / Selbourne Rd (E17) C
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: January 8, 2025, 11:06 am
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--- Quote from: willdudeuk link ---
>
> Thank you, so for my representation what should I put together
/ write to the Council?
>
> Simply no contravention occurred as per your explanation? Is
there anything I can reference where this comes from is it
highway code rule or similar?
>
--- End Quote ---
The The Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2016
(TSRGD 2016) Statutory Instrument 2016/362
Page 168 See Box Junctions
HTML https://tsrgd.co.uk/pdf/tsrgd/tsrgd2016.pdf
#Post#: 52513--------------------------------------------------
Re: Waltham Forest, Code 31 Entering and Stopping in a Box
Junction when Prohibited, Hoe St (E17) / Selbourne Rd (E17) C
DIR By: willdudeuk
Date: January 8, 2025, 3:40 pm
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DRAFT PCN CHALLENGE if you can feedback any improvements or
errors. Thanks.
Dear Waltham Forest Council,
After reviewing the images and video evidence provided for this
PCN the contravention (31 - entering and stopping in a box
junction when prohibited) did not occur.
The contravention is only enforceable if the motorist enters the
box, then has to stop in the box due to the presence of
stationary vehicles.
This was not the case for the alleged contravention. There
weren’t any stationary vehicles ahead of me to cause me to stop
in the box.
There was room to exit the other side therefore no contravention
occurred.
Please see The The Traffic Signs Regulations and General
Directions 2016 (TSRGD 2016) Statutory Instrument 2016/362
Page 168 Box Junctions where this is referenced from.
I have attached a screenshot of the page in question as an
attachment to this representation.
Link to document also provided here:
HTML https://tsrgd.co.uk/pdf/tsrgd/tsrgd2016.pdf
The contravention did not occur and therefore the PCN cancelled.
Regards
#Post#: 52528--------------------------------------------------
Re: Waltham Forest, Code 31 Entering and Stopping in a Box
Junction when Prohibited, Hoe St (E17) / Selbourne Rd (E17) C
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: January 8, 2025, 5:04 pm
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[member=1508]willdudeuk[/member] draft reps:
[indent]
Dear London Borough of Waltham Forest,
This representation is for the personal attention of Lorraine
Maynard: Please read these representations very carefully
indeed, if you reject them with a templated rejection that does
not address the issues I am quite properly raising at this stage
then I may in due course have to apply for an order for costs
against the council.
The substance of my representation is as follows: the statutory
prohibition only applies where a vehicle is forced to stop by
the presence of stationary vehicles, from the video it is
obvious that this did not happen: at the time when the vehicle
stopped, the vehicle ahead was moving. Indeed if you look at the
video carefully you will see that while there is slow-moving
traffic in the box and beyond the box, no vehicles ahead of my
own are actually stationary at any point until after my vehicle
starts moving again, therefore my vehicle was never forced to
stop by the presence of stationary vehicles.
If the usual drivel rejection is received, in due course
Lorraine Maynard will receive an email with my bank account
details where I would like my costs to be paid, as recently
happened in the case of Ali Hassan v London Borough of Waltham
Forest (2240447665, 18 November 2024). Of course I hope you will
choose not to waste public funds in this way and will simply
take the opportunity to cancel the PCN at this stage.
Yours faithfully,
[/indent]
Ok this really is a sledgehammer approach, but frankly I don't
have time to mess about with this nonsense and would much rather
avoid having to go to the tribunal if I possibly can. You don't
need to give them links or copies of the legislation, they're
meant to know the legislation that they're enforcing.
Once the representations are submitted take a screenshot of the
confirmation page, make sure the screenshot is date/timestamped.
#Post#: 52555--------------------------------------------------
Re: Waltham Forest, Code 31 Entering and Stopping in a Box
Junction when Prohibited, Hoe St (E17) / Selbourne Rd (E17) C
DIR By: willdudeuk
Date: January 9, 2025, 2:00 am
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Thank you [member=1]cp8759[/member]. Let's see what happens.
Appreciate your help and support.
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