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       #Post#: 52161--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Pelican pedestrian crossing or Parked on pavement argument ?
   DIR By: mdann52
       Date: January 6, 2025, 12:13 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       There is one possibility here.
       The offence wording of "Stop a Vehicle Within Pelican Crossing
       Limits" corresponds to the ZP97001 offence code. This then
       continues:
       [I]Contrary to regulation 18 of the Zebra, Pelican and Puffin
       Pedestrian Crossings Regulations 1997, section 25(5) of the Road
       Traffic Regulation Act 1984 and Schedule 2 of the Road Traffic
       Offenders Act 1988.[/I]
       Now... The Zebra, Pelican and Puffin Pedestrian Crossings
       Regulations 1997 have been repealed, so they cannot prosecute
       you under that act. Legislation.gov likes to pretend it hasn't,
       but it has.
       They should have given you a CoFP you with "Failing to Comply
       with a S36 Traffic Sign (endorsable) (manned equipment)"
       instead.
       So if you are feeling lucky, you can ignore the CoFP, wait for
       the police to go to court, and hope they attempt to charge you
       under the incorrect act.
       #Post#: 52162--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Pelican pedestrian crossing or Parked on pavement argument ?
   DIR By: Rallyman72
       Date: January 6, 2025, 12:26 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: mdann52 link ---
       >
       > There is one possibility here.
       >
       > The offence wording of "Stop a Vehicle Within Pelican Crossing
       Limits" corresponds to the ZP97001 offence code. This then
       continues:
       >
       > Contrary to regulation 18 of the Zebra, Pelican and Puffin
       Pedestrian Crossings Regulations 1997, section 25(5) of the Road
       Traffic Regulation Act 1984 and Schedule 2 of the Road Traffic
       Offenders Act 1988.
       >
       > Now... The Zebra, Pelican and Puffin Pedestrian Crossings
       Regulations 1997 have been repealed, so they cannot prosecute
       you under that act. Legislation.gov likes to pretend it hasn't,
       but it has.
       >
       > They should have given you a CoFP you with "Failing to Comply
       with a S36 Traffic Sign (endorsable) (manned equipment)"
       instead.
       >
       > So if you are feeling lucky, you can ignore the CoFP, wait for
       the police to go to court, and hope they attempt to charge you
       under the incorrect act.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       What about the Pelican Pedestrian Crossings Regulations and
       General Directions 1987.
       #Post#: 52291--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Pelican pedestrian crossing or Parked on pavement argument ?
   DIR By: The Slithy Tove
       Date: January 7, 2025, 10:42 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Rallyman72 link ---
       >
       > What about the Pelican Pedestrian Crossings Regulations and
       General Directions 1987.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       I'm open to be corrected, but I thought it's all been subsumed
       into the latest TSRGD.
       #Post#: 52293--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Pelican pedestrian crossing or Parked on pavement argument ?
   DIR By: 666
       Date: January 7, 2025, 10:53 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Rallyman72 link ---
       >
       > [
       > What about the Pelican Pedestrian Crossings Regulations and
       General Directions 1987.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Essentially revoked by the The Zebra, Pelican and Puffin
       Pedestrian Crossings Regulations and General Directions 1997.
       Revoked in turn by The Traffic Signs Regulations and General
       Directions 2016
       #Post#: 52346--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Pelican pedestrian crossing or Parked on pavement argument ?
   DIR By: Logician
       Date: January 7, 2025, 5:47 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       The problem with ignoring the fixed penalty, so that you are
       charged, hopefuly under the wrong act and have to go to court is
       that it is a high risk strategy, if it fails you could end up
       seriously out of pocket financially and no one can tell you your
       chances of success, but the court legal advisor may well not be
       clued up on the obscurities of this legislation and will be
       unlikely to be sympathetic to a legalistic defence if you are
       charged under the wrong legislation and you will be arguing a
       legal point before him/her. If you are charged under the correct
       legislation you will have to argue the point made by the
       policeman, or plead guilty. While it is interesting for the
       posters here, I think the smart thing is to accept the fixed
       penalty.
       #Post#: 52349--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Pelican pedestrian crossing or Parked on pavement argument ?
   DIR By: andy_foster
       Date: January 7, 2025, 6:24 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       If the charge is technically "wrong" but (including the
       statement of facts) addresses the same wrong-doing, the court
       would almost certainly amend the charge if the issue is raised.
       In order to exploit any such error (and I am far from convinced
       that there is a fatal error), the OP would need to be convicted
       by the magistrates without the charge being amended and then
       appeal against conviction to the Crown Court.
       #Post#: 52364--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Pelican pedestrian crossing or Parked on pavement argument ?
   DIR By: NewJudge
       Date: January 8, 2025, 3:22 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       There is also the problem that, as far as I know, the
       prosecution can amend the charge up to the opening of their case
       at the trial. If anyone who knows what they are doing sees the
       papers before then that is likely to happen.
       #Post#: 52396--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Pelican pedestrian crossing or Parked on pavement argument ?
   DIR By: Southpaw82
       Date: January 8, 2025, 6:13 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: NewJudge link ---
       >
       > There is also the problem that, as far as I know, the
       prosecution can amend the charge up to the opening of their case
       at the trial. If anyone who knows what they are doing sees the
       papers before then that is likely to happen.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       IIRC it can be amended up to verdict. Not checked for a while.
       #Post#: 52402--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Pelican pedestrian crossing or Parked on pavement argument ?
   DIR By: Alessio
       Date: January 8, 2025, 6:28 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I have decided to accept the fixed penalty .
       Paid the fine and posted the driving licence details over .
       Thanks to all of you for your time and valuable advise
       #Post#: 52404--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Pelican pedestrian crossing or Parked on pavement argument ?
   DIR By: Southpaw82
       Date: January 8, 2025, 6:35 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Alessio link ---
       >
       > I have decided to accept the fixed penalty .
       > Paid the fine and posted the driving licence details over .
       >
       > Thanks to all of you for your time and valuable advise
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Probably a wise move.
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