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#Post#: 51855--------------------------------------------------
Civil Enforcement - Payment not made in accordance with notified
terms - Greenwich High Road, London
DIR By: subpar7
Date: January 4, 2025, 7:03 am
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Hi everyone,
I've just received a "Parking Charge Notice - Notice to Keeper"
letter from Civil Enforcement for an "incident" on 20th December
2024.
The circumstances are as follows:
- On 20th December, the driver was driving on Greenwich High
Road taking someone to a dentist appointment.
- There was nowhere to park near the dentist's office, and the
road being busy with a cycle lane, the driver continued past the
office and turned left into a car park in front of the
Sainsbury's on Greenwich High Road.
- The driver did not notice any signage on entering - while
there is a "Pay here" board visible on GSV, the driver's focus
was on making the turn into the car park with pedestrians
crossing and cyclists potentially in the blind spot at the left
of the vehicle and did not see the sign.
- The driver proceeded to stop in a bay facing the entrance to
Sainsbury's to let the passenger out - no signs were visible
from this perspective.
- The passenger got out, fetched some possessions from the back
seat and boot.
- After this, the driver exited the car park (i.e. they did not
wait for the passenger, it was merely a "drop off").
The times marked on the PCN are entry at 08:57 and exit at
09:10. The duration seems longer than memory but is not
disputed.
Links to the "PCN":
HTML https://ibb.co/N37pRR5
HTML https://ibb.co/TvkFvjk
Link to parking location:
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/4v4C32y4i3ZJyAsg7
Is there anything that can be done on this or should I simply
pay up to get the early fee discount?
Many thanks in advance!
#Post#: 51878--------------------------------------------------
Re: Civil Enforcement - Payment not made in accordance with
notified terms - Greenwich High Road, London
DIR By: Dave65
Date: January 4, 2025, 9:44 am
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Do you have photos of the signage at the entrance and inside of
the car park?
#Post#: 51945--------------------------------------------------
Re: Civil Enforcement - Payment not made in accordance with
notified terms - Greenwich High Road, London
DIR By: b789
Date: January 5, 2025, 3:18 am
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This GSV image from October 2024 shows a lack of signage within
the car park:
HTML https://i.imgur.com/2AfheIj.jpeg
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/mHVKncEQoUZYtF8r6
However, a stay of 13 minutes is difficult to reconcile with
this statement that it was just a "drop off":
--- Quote ---
> - The driver proceeded to stop in a bay facing the entrance to
Sainsbury's to let the passenger out - no signs were visible
from this perspective.
> - The passenger got out, fetched some possessions from the
back seat and boot.
> - After this, the driver exited the car park (i.e. they did
not wait for the passenger, it was merely a "drop off").
--- End Quote ---
I would suggest the following as an initial appeal which worked
for another case I handled with CE at a different location:
--- Quote ---
> Re: Parking Charge Notice (PCN) No. [PCN Number]
> Vehicle Registration No: [VRM]
> Issue Date: 29/12/2024
>
> I am appealing as the registered keeper of the vehicle. I am
under no legal obligation to provide
> the driver’s details, and I decline to do so.
>
> Civil Enforcement Ltd (CEL) has failed to comply with the
strict requirements of Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms
Act (PoFA) 2012, which are necessary to hold the keeper liable.
I outline the following points of non-compliance:
>
> [indent]1. Failure to comply with PoFA paragraph 2(2):
>
> PoFA paragraph 2(2) states that 'adequate notice' of the
parking charge must be given to
> drivers. In this case, no adequate notice was provided. There
were no visible signs at the
> entrance, at the location where the vehicle stopped or along
the route to the entrance of
> the Sainsbury's store, communicating the parking terms and
conditions.
>
> 2. Failure to comply with PoFA paragraph 2(3):
>
> Paragraph 2(3) further clarifies that 'adequate notice' means
signs must clearly specify the parking charge and be positioned
in such a way that the charge is brought to the attention of
drivers. In this case, CEL did not display sufficient signage to
meet this requirement.
>
> 3. Failure to comply with PoFA paragraph 9(2)(c):
>
> PoFA paragraph 9(2)(c) requires that the Notice to Keeper
describe how the parking charge arose and how the requirement to
pay was brought to the attention of the driver. Given that CEL
has failed to provide adequate notice as defined in paragraphs
2(2) and 2(3), the Notice to Keeper does not comply with this
requirement. CEL’s partial or substantial compliance with PoFA
is insufficient to establish keeper liability, as full
compliance with all PoFA requirements is mandatory.[/indent]
>
> In addition, should CEL reject my appeal, I will expect them
to provide the following evidence to POPLA:
>
> [indent]• A detailed layout of the car park showing the
location of all signage.
>
> • Proof of the exact location where the vehicle was parked,
and how this relates to any signage.
>
> • Evidence that the signage used to display the parking terms
and conditions is fully compliant with the British Parking
Association (BPA) Code of Practice.[/indent]
>
> CEL will be put to strict proof of the vehicle’s parking
location and the relationship of that location to any signs
passed between the parking space and the store entrance.
>
> In light of these clear breaches of PoFA and the inadequate
signage, I request that the Parking Charge Notice be cancelled.
--- End Quote ---
#Post#: 52388--------------------------------------------------
Re: Civil Enforcement - Payment not made in accordance with
notified terms - Greenwich High Road, London
DIR By: subpar7
Date: January 8, 2025, 5:47 am
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Thank you both for your replies. I have submitted the appeal as
suggested and will update with the outcome.
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