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DIR Return to: Speeding and other criminal offences
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#Post#: 51645--------------------------------------------------
Received a Single Justice Procedure Notice for not providing
licence details.
DIR By: NormalMaverick
Date: January 2, 2025, 4:35 am
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I often rent cars with ZipCar to drive in London. In June 2024,
I received two back to back Notices of Intended Prosecution for
speeding:
- 16-Jun: Driving 25mph in a 20mph zone
- 23-Jun: Driving 47mpg in a 40mph zone
These notices both state "Please provide your license number"
etc., which I did. They also state "Please DO NOT send in your
licence or a copy if issued by DVLA". My licence is issued by
DVLA in the UK, so I did not send anything.
I filled out the form and paid both of the £100 notices promptly
in July as soon as I got them. However, I missed the part of the
FPN that asks for licence details, mistakenly assuming that
paying the fine was all that was needed.
I have just received a Single Justice Procedure Notice for the
second offence (23-Jun, driving 47mph in a 40mph). The witness
statement within this notice (from the Camera Processing
Caseworker) states:
--- Quote ---
>
> "The driver failed to satisfy the requirements of the Fixed
Penalty, the Fixed Penalty was paid but they failed to provide
their licence details for electronic endorsement and a refund
was requested.
>
> The driver did not satisfy the requirements of the Fixed
Penalty offer within the specified timeframe. As a result, the
offer of a Fixed Penalty has been withdrawn.
>
> The matter was therefore referred to the Prosecution Team for
a Single Justice Notice to be issued."
>
--- End Quote ---
I correctly filled in my licence number in the Section 172
Statement with the Notice of Intended Prosecution I received. I
also never requested a refund of my payment.
The Single Justice Procedure notice I have received asks me how
I plead and whether I want to come to court.
What are my next steps here? Specifically, the questions I have
are:
- Should I go to court to explain this, or simply plead guilty
to the administrative screwup?
- What is the expected penalty for this? I have no previous
convictions of any form
- How long will this remain on my record and will it affect
future employment?
- Will I receive a second Single Justice Procedure notice for
the first speeding offence?
Any advice is much appreciated, thank you!
#Post#: 51647--------------------------------------------------
Re: Received a Single Justice Procedure Notice for not providing
licence details.
DIR By: 666
Date: January 2, 2025, 4:56 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Normal
What are my next steps here? Specifically, the questions I have
are:
>
> Any advice is much appreciated, thank you!
>
--- End Quote ---
1. No need to attend court. Plead guilty, and ask the court to
consider sentencing you at the fixed penalty level.
2. Three points. If the court ignorer your request, then an
income-related fine, 40% surcharge, and c.£90 costs.
3. The points remain on your record for four years, the first
three of which count for totting-up purposes. If these are the
only three points you have, then extremely unlikely to affect
employment unless as a professional driver.
4. For the first offence, proceedings would need to have begun
by 16th December. It's anyone's guess whether that happened:
there may be a nasty surprise delayed in the Xmas post.
#Post#: 51648--------------------------------------------------
Re: Received a Single Justice Procedure Notice for not providing
licence details.
DIR By: andy_foster
Date: January 2, 2025, 5:37 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Technically, you received an SJPN for the speeding offence. You
were offered an alternative disposal (the COFP), but [on the
face of it at least] failed to comply with the requirements to
accept it. We see this a lot.
Personally, I am not entirely convinced that paying online does
not satisfy the statutory identification requirements, which
would render subsequent prosecution unlawful, but the courts
have historically been slow to find that the police have made
such widespread fatal errors (floodgates), and anyone who failed
to read the notice properly, and therefore found themselves in
this position, is probably not the best person to run such an
argument.
For the sake of completeness, if the statutory requirements to
accept the COFP are complied with, the driver cannot lawfully be
prosecuted. They are set out in section 75 of the Road Traffic
Offenders Act 1988. Basically, other than not being liable to
tot up, payment has to be made to the appropriate person within
the suspended enforcement period (28 days from date of issue),
and the identification details have to be provided to the
appropriate person within the same period. For the purposes of
payment, the appropriate person is the fixed penalty clerk. For
the purposes of the identification information, the appropriate
person is the fixed penalty clerk. The requirement for
identification information is satisfied if either the
appropriate person is satisfied as to your identity, or you
provide the appropriate person with your name, licence number
and date of birth. A UK licence number incorporates the holder's
date of birth (albeit only 2 digits for the year - unless this
has changed for those born 2000 onwards).
#Post#: 51698--------------------------------------------------
Re: Received a Single Justice Procedure Notice for not providing
licence details.
DIR By: mdann52
Date: January 2, 2025, 12:37 pm
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I didn't think the online form required inputting all the
required details under the legislation? I haven't had to do it
myself though, only seen screenshots, so happy to be corrected.
I think it's going to come down to the DoB - the driving licence
number still only contains two digits for year of birth, so it's
possible for two people born in different centuries to have the
same licence number, minus the last few random digits
#Post#: 51703--------------------------------------------------
Re: Received a Single Justice Procedure Notice for not providing
licence details.
DIR By: andy_foster
Date: January 2, 2025, 1:32 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
The oldest licence holder in the UK is 108. The youngest is 16.
Drivers over the age of 100 will have been been born 1916 -
1925. Nobody born after 2009 holds a driving licence.
00 - 09 == 2000 - 2009
10 - 15 == nobody alive
16 - 99 == 1916 - 1999
There are many reasons why such a defence might fail, but
ambiguity over a 2 digit year of birth is not one of them. For
an overlap, there would need to be a licence holder aged 115+
#Post#: 51709--------------------------------------------------
Re: Received a Single Justice Procedure Notice for not providing
licence details.
DIR By: sparx
Date: January 2, 2025, 4:40 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote ---
> so it's possible for two people born in different centuries to
have the same licence number, minus the last few random digits
--- End Quote ---
Not to mention the same first, middle (or lack of) and last
names, and the random digit.
ABCDE (5 digits of surname) YMMDDY (Decade of year, month 01-12
if male or 51-62 if female, day 01-28,29,30,31, last digit of
year) F (First initial), M (Middle initial or 9), Random digit
(normally 9), ZZ (Computer check digits).
#Post#: 51722--------------------------------------------------
Re: Received a Single Justice Procedure Notice for not providing
licence details.
DIR By: NormalMaverick
Date: January 3, 2025, 12:25 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: 666 link ---
>
>
> 4. For the first offence, proceedings would need to have begun
by 16th December. It's anyone's guess whether that happened:
there may be a nasty surprise delayed in the Xmas post.
>
--- End Quote ---
Thank you user 666. One question about point 4, you say that
proceedings would have begun by 16th December.
I have dug through old documents and found the FPN I received
for the first offence (which I received nothing for), along with
the form I was supposed to send in. Will it help at all if I
send it in now?
Or, is it possible that nothing has happened for the first
offence on 16th June, and me sending in my licence information
will only trigger another SJPN?
#Post#: 51723--------------------------------------------------
Re: Received a Single Justice Procedure Notice for not providing
licence details.
DIR By: 666
Date: January 3, 2025, 12:47 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: NormalMaverick link ---
>
>
> I have dug through old documents and found the FPN I received
for the first offence (which I received nothing for), along with
the form I was supposed to send in. Will it help at all if I
send it in now?
>
> Or, is it possible that nothing has happened for the first
offence on 16th June, and me sending in my licence information
will only trigger another SJPN?
>
--- End Quote ---
I think you mean COFP, not FPN. Whatever, the answer is no., it
wouldn't help. But it's too late to trigger another SJPN.
#Post#: 51724--------------------------------------------------
Re: Received a Single Justice Procedure Notice for not providing
licence details.
DIR By: NormalMaverick
Date: January 3, 2025, 12:50 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: 666 link ---
>
> I think you mean COFP, not FPN. Whatever, the answer is no.,
it wouldn't help. But it's too late to trigger another SJPN.
>
--- End Quote ---
Yes I did mean COFP, apologies.
Out of curiousity, why is it too late for the police to trigger
another SJPN? Is it because 6 months have passed since the
offence, and the £100 I paid for the COFP has not been refunded
as yet?
#Post#: 51727--------------------------------------------------
Re: Received a Single Justice Procedure Notice for not providing
licence details.
DIR By: NewJudge
Date: January 3, 2025, 3:07 am
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--- Quote ---
> Out of curiousity, why is it too late for the police to
trigger another SJPN? Is it because 6 months have passed since
the offence, and the £100 I paid for the COFP has not been
refunded as yet?
--- End Quote ---
If i is more than six months from the date of the offence it is
too late for proceedings to be taken. All that went before (in
the way of fixed penalty offers) are irrelevant to that.
Have you checked your licence online to see if any convictions
have been recorded against you?
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