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#Post#: 51626--------------------------------------------------
Re: PPA ZONE but no signs at bays
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: January 1, 2025, 2:20 pm
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--- Quote from: Miffed link ---
>
> So, unless there's an error in the parking order, it looks
like pursuing an appeal is a waste of time.
>
--- End Quote ---
There might also be an issue in Harrow's enforcement process,
most appeals are won on technical grounds of this sort.
#Post#: 51628--------------------------------------------------
Re: PPA ZONE but no signs at bays
DIR By: Miffed
Date: January 1, 2025, 3:03 pm
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Once again, I'm grateful for all the input and the different
people weighing in.
#Post#: 51639--------------------------------------------------
Re: PPA ZONE but no signs at bays
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: January 2, 2025, 2:26 am
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Here's an example of a PPA order:
HTML https://www.harrow.gov.uk/downloads/file/32553/22_25_Accessibility_documents_approved___FINAL.pdf
#Post#: 52181--------------------------------------------------
Re: PPA ZONE but no signs at bays
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: January 6, 2025, 1:20 pm
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For later:
The Harrow (Parking Places) Traffic Order 2020
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1JA7T805jfccPCmSK4dp53N7vSvcnk-LP/view
The Harrow (Parking Places) (Amendment No. 16) Traffic Order
2022
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1GMho5gCgSxN-qCiT7ijsIUAfMfCqkdnl/view
#Post#: 52375--------------------------------------------------
Re: PPA ZONE but no signs at bays
DIR By: Miffed
Date: January 8, 2025, 4:56 am
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Hello again,
Does that order look to be faulty in any way? I'm completely
surprised to see it's been in effect since 2022,and I'm certain
I will have parked there since then, again, unaware of this
change.
I've just received the notice rejecting my appeal, which was
expected.
HTML https://i.imgur.com/fV7VMS3.jpeg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/00FYfOG.jpeg
#Post#: 52445--------------------------------------------------
Re: PPA ZONE but no signs at bays
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: January 8, 2025, 8:56 am
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From what I can see, you were parked within a parking place
defined by item 3 in Table 1. The order seems to cover each of
the parking place areas although the residents of 101 to 107
might be surprised to know that GL permit holders could park by
their dropped footways.
Technically the contravention alleged in your case is incorrect.
The order allows a range of permit holders to park, not just GL
residents permit holders. But on its own I doubt this would
persuade an adjudicator, see what others post.
Their response to your reps is numerically illiterate as it
states that they could serve a NTO when the discount is still
available..
'[pay £55]within 14 days of' 3 Jan is 17th....
whereas '[pay £110] within 28 days of date of PCN' is 15th at
which time they could serve a NTO demanding £110 from the owner
despite £55 being the penalty until 17th.
But again this is unlikely to win on its on.
#Post#: 52522--------------------------------------------------
Re: PPA ZONE but no signs at bays
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: January 8, 2025, 4:32 pm
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As long as you challenge the NTO within 14 days of the date of
issue the discount is normally reoffered anyway upon rejection,
so there's limited risk in carrying on.
#Post#: 53058--------------------------------------------------
Re: PPA ZONE but no signs at bays
DIR By: Miffed
Date: January 12, 2025, 8:37 am
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Hello again,
Given that the previous appeal posted here did fail, and the
challenge I've made against the pcn was rejected for a similar
reason is it worth going further, if they're already minded to
reject?
Is there any faulty element of either the traffic order or the
pcn? And if not, should I just give in?
#Post#: 53060--------------------------------------------------
Re: PPA ZONE but no signs at bays
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: January 12, 2025, 8:52 am
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OP, probably as many appeals to the adjudicator are won on
procedural grounds arising from a Notice of Rejection of formal
representations as are won on more standard issues e.g.
contravention did not occur, inadequate signage etc.
But you don't have a NOR and won't get one unless you make
formal reps against a NTO and cp suggests this could be
financially risk-free as regards your current situation i.e.
discount being re-offered.
Which would seem to lead to ...make formal reps within 14 days
beginning on date of service of a NTO.
#Post#: 53067--------------------------------------------------
Re: PPA ZONE but no signs at bays
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: January 12, 2025, 10:56 am
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[member=3865]Miffed[/member] the council always rejects
everything, that's not really the point. Once you appeal to the
tribunal it's no longer up to them, and the odds are in your
favour: probably a third of appeals are not resisted by
authorities, a third are won and a third are lost, so you have a
2 in 3 chance of a positive outcome even if you didn't have any
assistance from anyone.
On top of that, motorists who are represented by one of us
regularly win in 90%+ of cases. If the Notice of Rejection turns
out to be procedurally defective, you could have a winning
appeal no matter what the signage situation is.
So frankly it would be a bit silly to give in and pay now.
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