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#Post#: 177--------------------------------------------------
Parking fine in a lay-by in Snowdonia, only coins or app
accepted
DIR By: jacoscar
Date: June 18, 2023, 10:30 am
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I'm reposting a thread I started on pepipoo:
Hello, I was given a fine last Sunday near Snowdonia.
I parked in a lay-by 1.8km (30 minutes walk) from the start of
our hike (which has a prebook car park). I didn’t even think of
checking the parking restrictions, but upon my return I found
the fine and then spotted the pay machine and a small vertical
sign (I parked exactly between the two)
HTML https://i.imgur.com/ZdY46lk.jpg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/ErhxxGh.jpg
When I checked the machine I noticed you can only pay by coins
or by app; we couldn’t have paid anyway because we didn’t have
cash and there was no mobile phone signal to make a call, let
alone to download the app
Here is a redacted version of the fine
HTML https://i.imgur.com/8ICzEmv.jpg
I checked the machine and it seemed to be working, although I
had to press all the buttons to change the language to English,
here is a small video
HTML https://imgur.com/a/9kIi8kF
I am on Lebara (Vodafone) and my girlfriend was on Giffgaff
(O2), both had no signal
The exact spot is here
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/RuHY9s9xRVBgC4uP9?g_st=ic
----
This is what I wrote to them
-----
Dear Sir/Madam,
I am writing to formally challenge the parking fine issued to me
on 06/05/2023 near Pen-y-pass, for the violation of parking
regulations at the A498 lay-by at A4086 junction. I believe this
fine was unjustly imposed, and I respectfully request a review
of my case.
PCN Number *****
Vehicle registration: ****
Address:
{my address}
I would like to present the following reasons for contesting the
parking fine:
1. Inadequate Signage: The only signage in the area, which read
"have you paid and displayed?" was not visible from where I
parked. This lack of clear and visible signage prevented me from
being aware of the parking restrictions and the need to pay for
parking.
2. Limited Payment Options: The payment machine at the location
only accepts coins or payment via an app. At the time, I did not
have any coins on me, and there was no signal in the area to
download and use the app for payment. Consequently, I was unable
to pay for parking even if I had been aware of the requirement.
I have attached photographic evidence of the inadequate signage
and the absence of mobile network signal in the area to support
my case.
I kindly request a formal review of the parking fine based on
the reasons mentioned above. I firmly believe that the evidence
provided demonstrates my lack of knowledge regarding the need to
pay for parking and the absence of viable payment options at the
time.
I would appreciate a prompt response to this e-mail to allow for
the timely resolution of the matter. Please inform me of the
outcome of the review process and provide further instructions
if necessary.
Thank you for your attention to this matter. I trust that the
council will carefully consider my appeal and ensure a fair
resolution.
Best regards,
{my name}
I challenged the fine with the following
This is what they answered
Mr [redacted mispelled name] [redacted surname]
By Email
[redacted email] Your ref GW33544579
Date 13/06/2023
Direct dial 01824 708 487
Mrs L Jones
Dear Mr [redacted surname]
Re : Notice of rejection of “challenge” – Traffic Management Act
2004
PCN No : GW33544579
Vehicle : HV60XZO
Date Issued : 06/05/2023 13:19:27
Location of Contravention : A498 LAY-BY AT A4086 JUNCTION
I have received your challenge dated 15th May 2023 to the above
Penalty Charge
Notice and after careful consideration of the circumstances have
found no
grounds for the cancellation of the charge.
The Penalty Charge Notice was correctly issued. Your vehicle was
parked
without clearly displaying a valid Pay and Display ticket.
You believe that there is inadequate signage and say that even
if you would have
been aware of the requirement for payment you would not have
been able to pay
as you had no coins or signal to download and use the app for
payment.
However, when parking it is the responsibility of the motorist
to check for signs
and restrictions before they park and leave their vehicle; in
this instance the
signage could be seen from the position of your vehicle (see
attached photograph
below).
If a motorist finds that they do not have the means for payment
then the onus
remains with the motorist to locate and utilise another parking
place that does not
contravene the restrictions in place.
The failure to make payment for your parking time is not
acceptable and
contravenes the Parking Regulations to which there is no defence
based on
mitigating circumstances. Your reasons are therefore not
accepted as grounds for
cancellation of the Penalty Charge Notice.
You can still take advantage of the discounted charge of £35.00
if you pay within
14 days from 13/06/2023.
You can also pay by our 24 hour automated telephone payment
service. The
Telephone Payment Number is: 0345 6032677. With touch-tone
keypad, follow
the voice prompts and enter your Penalty Charge Notice number
and card details
via your telephone keypad. Payments are processed automatically,
you will be
told that your payment has been authorised and you will be given
an
authorisation code as confirmation.
Alternatively you can speak to a member of staff (Mon – Fri 9am
to 4:30pm) who
will process your payment. Please call 0345 6056556 and state
you are calling to
pay a Penalty Charge Notice (please have this to hand). Payment
will be
authorised during your call so the member of staff can provide
you with an
authorisation code as confirmation.
If no payment is received by 27/06/2023 a “Notice to Owner” will
be sent to the
owner/keeper of the vehicle as registered with the DVLA. Please
note that this
Notice will not be sent to the driver. If you are the driver but
not the owner, and
you still wish to make formal representations, you are advised
to contact the
owner who can respond to the Notice accordingly.
If this Council rejects the representations to the “Notice to
Owner”, a notice of
rejection will be sent with details of the appeal procedure. You
cannot appeal to
the Traffic Penalty Tribunal until the “Notice to Owner” has
been issued and
formal representations rejected.
Please note that the discounted charge will no longer be
available after 14 days
and the charge will return to the original £70 if payment is not
made in time.
Yours sincerely
pitcure they sent me
HTML https://imgur.com/hrbCUph
#Post#: 178--------------------------------------------------
Re: Parking fine in a lay-by in Snowdonia, only coins or app
accepted
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: June 18, 2023, 10:38 am
---------------------------------------------------------
The rejection is nonsense, there needs to be TSRGD signage
within sight of the car for an on-street contravention. Just
wait for the Notice to Owner and I'll draft a representation for
you.
I'm presuming the car is registered to you, you have the V5C,
and the address is 100% correct / up to date?
#Post#: 189--------------------------------------------------
Re: Parking fine in a lay-by in Snowdonia, only coins or app
accepted
DIR By: jacoscar
Date: June 18, 2023, 2:41 pm
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--- Quote from: cp8759 link ---
>
> The rejection is nonsense, there needs to be TSRGD signage
within sight of the car for an on-street contravention. Just
wait for the Notice to Owner and I'll draft a representation for
you.
>
> I'm presuming the car is registered to you, you have the V5C,
and the address is 100% correct / up to date?
>
--- End Quote ---
Yes, my car, address correct on the V5C
#Post#: 953--------------------------------------------------
Re: Parking fine in a lay-by in Snowdonia, only coins or app
accepted
DIR By: jacoscar
Date: July 6, 2023, 8:59 am
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I finally received the NtO
HTML https://i.imgur.com/69D6spn.png
pages 2 to 4 attached as PDF
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 966--------------------------------------------------
Re: Parking fine in a lay-by in Snowdonia, only coins or app
accepted
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: July 6, 2023, 3:54 pm
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I'd put the basic point to them and see how they answer it:
[indent]
Dear Gwynedd Council,
I dispute liability for PCN GW33544579 on the basis of
inadequate signage. I was parked on a road and I did not see any
signs, let alone any compliant signs, indicating that any sort
of parking restrictions are in force.
While it is the responsibility of the motorist to check for
signs and restrictions before they park and leave their vehicle,
it is the responsibility of the highway authority to ensure its
signs are compliant with the Traffic Signs Regulations 2016, and
also that the signage as a whole is adequate within the meaning
of regulation 18(1) of The Local Authorities' Traffic Orders
(Procedure) (England and Wales) Regulations 1996.
The signage in this instance is blatantly not complaint with the
2016 regulations, and it is certainly not adequate. It follows
that the contravention did not occur and the penalty charge must
be cancelled.
Yours faithfully,
[/indent]
#Post#: 4410--------------------------------------------------
Re: Parking fine in a lay-by in Snowdonia, only coins or app
accepted
DIR By: jacoscar
Date: September 5, 2023, 7:54 am
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PCN cancelled!
[attachment deleted by admin]
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