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#Post#: 50741--------------------------------------------------
Ilford Lane Disabled bay signage
DIR By: syd16
Date: December 22, 2024, 6:27 am
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Hi guys, I have been hit with a PCN from a Redbridge council
officer for parking in a disabled person's parking place without
displaying a blue badge on Ilford Lane IG1. I had parked at the
end of a parade of maybe around 6 adjacent parking spots out of
which just the end one I had parked in is for disabled persons
only. I was shocked because neither I nor my partner who was
with me at the time realised I had parked in a disabled person's
spot.
Looking at the surrounding signage there is maybe some ignorance
on my part - I had read read the top sign and duly registered my
car in the Ringo app and had missed the bottom sign. However, I
do see the ground marking "DISABLED" label is not very clear and
hence in busy traffic/bright conditions can seem subtle and
hidden. Just wanted to check with the forum if there is a legal
requirement for the signage on the ground to be visible and
easily legible and if I have a good case to challenge this? PCN
and photos attached:
HTML https://i.ibb.co/XSWb7mp/B.jpg
HTML https://i.ibb.co/Kz2j90X/A.jpg
HTML https://i.ibb.co/b59f18g/1.jpg
HTML https://i.ibb.co/4SQVF9W/2.jpg
HTML https://i.ibb.co/CWC243D/3.jpg
HTML https://i.ibb.co/DCzhD1q/4.jpg
HTML https://i.ibb.co/zJTR6k9/5.jpg
#Post#: 50743--------------------------------------------------
Re: Ilford Lane Disabled bay signage
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: December 22, 2024, 7:27 am
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Whilst the carriageway markings are very worn, the sign is in
good condition, and, what's more, placed at the boundary between
the PbP parking for everybody, and the disabled bay, with arrows
on each sign to indicate applicability. So I think you would
struggle to overturn this PCN on the contravention itself.
However, there may be a 'technical' appeal based on council
mismanagement of the enforcement process and the content of the
PCN itself. The PCN looks OK to me, although the last sentence
in the 'How to challenge' section is not totally compliant with
what the regulations require, but probably good enough for an
adjudicator.
So wait a bit to see what the others say.
#Post#: 53158--------------------------------------------------
Re: Ilford Lane Disabled bay signage
DIR By: syd16
Date: January 13, 2025, 8:15 am
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So I appealed this on the basis that markings on the ground are
extremely worn so the "DISABLED" marking was illegible which
contravenes the requirement for the clear delineation of
designated spaces as outlined in the TSRGD and constitutes a
valid reason for the cancellation of the PCN.
They have rejected my appeal though - see below. Is this worth
appealing further or taking it to tribunal?
HTML https://i.ibb.co/LnptGWN/reply1.jpg
HTML https://i.ibb.co/nnRzzRX/reply2.jpg
This is my full appeal letter:
Dear Sir/Madam,
I am writing to formally appeal the Parking Charge Notice (PCN)
referenced above, issued to me on 19th December 2024 for
allegedly parking in a designated disabled parking space without
clearly displaying a valid disabled person’s badge.
I acknowledge the requirement to display a valid disabled
person’s badge when parking in a designated disabled bay.
However, I respectfully request that you reconsider this charge
for the following reason:
The ground marking of "DISABLED" in the parking bay where I
parked is extremely worn and illegible and the space is not
distinguishable from the adjacent normal parking bays. The faded
markings do not clearly indicate that the space is designated
for disabled persons, making it impossible for a driver to
reasonably identify the parking restriction in accordance with
current regulations. Part 3 of TSRGD 2016 specifically addresses
road markings, including markings for disabled parking bays,
ensuring that they are clearly defined and distinguishable from
regular parking bays. These spaces are typically marked with a
wheelchair symbol and the word "DISABLED", with specific
dimensions and visibility standards.
The poor condition of the ground markings at the location in
question directly led to my misunderstanding of the parking
restrictions even though I registered my parked vehicle through
the Ringo app. I was unable to clearly identify that the space
was a disabled parking bay, as the "DISABLED" marking was
illegible. This situation contravenes the requirement for the
clear delineation of designated spaces, as outlined in the
TSRGD, and I believe this constitutes a valid reason for the
cancellation of the PCN.
Local authorities are responsible for maintaining road markings
and signs. If a disabled parking bay is adjacent to regular
spaces, and the boundary or marking of the disabled bay is
unclear or faded, the local authority has an obligation to
refresh or repaint the markings to comply with the TSRGD.
The markings should be renewed if they have become difficult to
see, as faded markings can make it unclear whether a parking
space is designated for disabled use, potentially leading to
unfair penalties for drivers.
Given these circumstances, I kindly request that you review the
evidence and take into account the substandard condition of the
ground markings when making your decision. I trust you will find
that this appeal is justified and that the PCN will be cancelled
accordingly.
I have attached photographs showing the worn and unclear
"DISABLED" marking for your reference. If you require any
additional information or evidence to support my appeal, please
do not hesitate to contact me.
Thank you for your attention to this matter. I look forward to
your prompt response and the cancellation of the charge.
Yours faithfully,
#Post#: 53164--------------------------------------------------
Re: Ilford Lane Disabled bay signage
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: January 13, 2025, 9:17 am
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You parked, knew* you were in a parking place because, according
to you, you consulted the traffic sign and paid for parking
rights via RingGo. But for some reason you didn't mention this
in your reps. In their eyes I suspect that not paying marks you
as being a chancer whereas payment implies you made a genuine
mistake, it certainly is more in your favour than not IMO.
* Or did you not pay and could argue (I doubt successfully) that
you didn't know you were in a parking place of any type, let
alone disabled, because there weren't any discernible road
markings?
IMO, your current line(!) must fail because your own photo shows
the parking place markings, the internal transverse line marking
the change in restriction and, as observed by others, clear
traffic signs where this occurs.
#Post#: 53169--------------------------------------------------
Re: Ilford Lane Disabled bay signage
DIR By: syd16
Date: January 13, 2025, 10:00 am
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That's correct I did use the Ringo app to register my car,
parking was free for 1 hour, was a genuine mistake. I recall
there was a free parking space a few spots down so if it was
made clear that this is a disabled parking space then I
certainly would have parked in the other space! You're probably
right I should have mentioned in my appeal that I registered the
car in Ringo. Do you think it is worth taking the risk of paying
the full fine and appealing it further?
#Post#: 53171--------------------------------------------------
Re: Ilford Lane Disabled bay signage
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: January 13, 2025, 10:12 am
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Are you the registered keeper? I ask because it's only the RK
who's in the frame at the NTO stage.
Also, we've recently seen a spate of councils not re-offering
the discount after unsuccessful formal reps(you called yours
'formal' but they weren't) so this council's track record needs
to be factored in. Perhaps other posters could help.
Set against this is what I understand is their woeful
administration of formal reps which even at the 11th hour could
drag victory from the jaws of defeat on purely technical
grounds.
Wait for other comments.
#Post#: 53172--------------------------------------------------
Re: Ilford Lane Disabled bay signage
DIR By: syd16
Date: January 13, 2025, 10:19 am
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Thanks for your advice, I am the registered keeper indeed. I'm
happy to take it further, I did beat the council on a YBJ ticket
last year with the help of members of this forum (link
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/yellow-box-junction-ilford-ley-street/15/).<br
/>Will await further comments.
#Post#: 53227--------------------------------------------------
Re: Ilford Lane Disabled bay signage
DIR By: ManxTom
Date: January 13, 2025, 5:32 pm
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--- Quote from: syd16 link ---
>
> ... Do you think it is worth taking the risk of paying the
full fine and appealing it further?
>
--- End Quote ---
I'm no expert so see what others suggest, but I think that if
you pay up at this stage that is the matter closed. You can't
appeal further. But I may be wrong...
#Post#: 53229--------------------------------------------------
Re: Ilford Lane Disabled bay signage
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: January 13, 2025, 6:08 pm
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--- Quote from: ManxTom link ---
>
> [quote author=syd16 link=topic=4399.msg53169#msg53169
date=1736784001]
> ... Do you think it is worth taking the risk of paying the
full fine and appealing it further?
>
--- End Quote ---
I'm no expert so see what others suggest, but I think that if
you pay up at this stage that is the matter closed. You can't
appeal further. But I may be wrong...
[/quote]
If you pay now your appeal option is lost. However, if you take
the matter to London Tribunals, it is the full penalty if you
lose, with no extra costs, so why pay now if you could
potentially win your case and pay nothing ?
#Post#: 57869--------------------------------------------------
Re: Ilford Lane Disabled bay signage
DIR By: syd16
Date: February 12, 2025, 2:32 pm
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I decided not to pay the penalty and have received the below
notice. I plan to make representation and challenge the PCN.
There's no mention of this going to an independent tribunal
stage if they reject it. Any ideas what would happen if they
reject it?
HTML https://i.ibb.co/8D2dvpnx/IMG-9413.jpg
HTML https://i.ibb.co/XkbNRq64/IMG-9414.jpg
HTML https://i.ibb.co/s9nxRZcR/IMG-9415.jpg
HTML https://i.ibb.co/9kXSTk9D/IMG-9416.jpg
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