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#Post#: 50695--------------------------------------------------
Newham, code 52m failing to comply with a prohibition on certain
type of vehicles, Royal Albert Way E16 & Gallions Round
DIR By: correcthaunt
Date: December 21, 2024, 12:48 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Hi [member=1]cp8759[/member] & [member=12]Incandescent[/member],
Thank you for taking the time to look into this for me.
I have just received a charge certificate dated 19th of December
2024.
Context:
Back in November I received 3 letters from council:
#1 - Charge certificate for entering Manor road
#2 - Charge certificate for existing the Manor road
#3 – PCN for this 52m @ Royal Albert Way
I made a post here on this website for #1 and #2 then I appealed
all three with the council (both sending both letters and
submitted them online). The council wrote back in two identical
letters that they rejected appeal 1 twice… but left 2 untouched.
Reduced the fees from £190 each to £65 as I was never provided
PCNs for them. I paid this off to not deal with this anymore,
more on this below.
For appeal 3 I never heard back.
This is the PCN that I got for #3
HTML https://i.postimg.cc/yW18jyLF/Original-PCN.png
HTML https://postimg.cc/yW18jyLF
And their evidence:
HTML https://i.postimg.cc/QF2MqLzt/Evidence-from-the-website.png
HTML https://postimg.cc/QF2MqLzt
HTML https://youtu.be/F1iC2xXjHzQ
You can see that once the driver has processed that this was in
fact a different sign to the regular 40mph they started to
break/stop but it was already too deep into the turn.
Here is the location from Street View link in Google Maps, and
the sign it’s showing as 40mph:
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/PA9AZBUZuRedBEQN8
I then submitted the previously mentioned appeal both online and
send this via post.
HTML https://i.postimg.cc/sQyDtYsC/My-appeal.png
HTML https://postimg.cc/sQyDtYsC
Here is proof of postage – all 3 letters were sent together:
HTML https://i.postimg.cc/YG3qkvCG/proof-of-postage.png
HTML https://postimg.cc/YG3qkvCG
And here is proof of the online submission:
HTML https://i.postimg.cc/CnxMKwRv/proof-of-the-online-submission-W26800139.png
HTML https://postimg.cc/CnxMKwRv
Since then, the council has rejected appeal 1 and 2, and as I
didn’t want to deal with this anymore, I just paid £130 (2x£65,
which was better than the original £190x2 they wanted!).
However, the council made a mistake, and only reduced #1 from
£190 to £65 and left #2 at £190. As the website allowed you to
input whatever amount you wish to pay, I just paid £65 each and
wrote to them on their portal to say they have made an
administrative mistake and need to rectify that.
A few days later I got this response:
HTML https://i.postimg.cc/Hrcx5WBR/Council-e-mail-response.png
HTML https://postimg.cc/Hrcx5WBR
Here they have confirmed that #1 and #2 is resolved but that
there are 4 more cases in their system.
Here was my response to them:
HTML https://i.postimg.cc/8FLzKK8b/my-response-to-council-e-mail.png
HTML https://postimg.cc/8FLzKK8b
I have heard nothing back in the e-mail or via post, until just
now I got charge certificate dated 19th of December 2024
HTML https://i.postimg.cc/Z0wKMvQX/Charge-Certificate.png
HTML https://postimg.cc/Z0wKMvQX
Questions
Now, what do I do here?
Do I write back to the council saying they have never responded
to my appeal?
Do I wait for the tribunal letters?
Also, what should I do about PN62628875, PN62645400, PN62647643,
these are from 2021…?
PN62628875, PN62645400, PN62647643
These are 3 charges that as explained in my response to them I
was never notified. Their e-mail was the first time I found out
about them. All 3 all for the same thing, back wheel was in the
yellow box in Newham, but this was in 2021! I checked on the
register and no judgements have been registered against me so I
have no clue what I need to do with these as paying £570
(£190x3) for something I only found via their e-mail is
ridiculous at best. Do I just leave it until a letter from the
courts appear?
I understand that there is a lot of info here so thank you for
taking the time to look through this.
#Post#: 50701--------------------------------------------------
Re: Newham, code 52m failing to comply with a prohibition on
certain type of vehicles, Royal Albert Way E16 & Gallions R
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: December 21, 2024, 2:10 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Sorry, but it's not completely clear - how many PCNs are
outstanding, (i.e not paid). It would be better if you could
list them with date of PCN, and for each one, say what stage it
is at.
For PCNs at the Charge Certificate stage, for which you have
submitted representations, you have to now wait for the Order
for Recovery for each of those, and then submit a Statutory
Declaration to the TEC that you made representations, but
received no Notice of Rejection of Reps. TEC will then cancel
the OfRs and the CCs and the matter then reverts to the PCN
stage.
After the end date for payment of the CCs, you need to be
proactive, and to check the amount outstanding on the Newham
website. When it goes up by £10 to £205, the debt has been
registered and you can submit your SD. You don't even have to
wait for the Order for Recovery to arrive, because you can
download the form from the EC website.
Your case does seem to be a bit of a Dog's Breakfast, and the
usual incompetence and stupidity of Newham is on display. Just
remember that Newham do not re-offer the discount after
rejecting representations, making it a total no-brainer to take
them to London Tribunals where you are sure to win, because
these signs have been declared as non-compliant by at least one
adjudicator.
#Post#: 50703--------------------------------------------------
Re: Newham, code 52m failing to comply with a prohibition on
certain type of vehicles, Royal Albert Way E16 & Gallions R
DIR By: correcthaunt
Date: December 21, 2024, 2:27 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Incandescent link ---
>
> Sorry, but it's not completely clear - how many PCNs are
outstanding, (i.e not paid). It would be better if you could
list them with date of PCN, and for each one, say what stage it
is at.
>
> For PCNs at the Charge Certificate stage, for which you have
submitted representations, you have to now wait for the Order
for Recovery for each of those, and then submit a Statutory
Declaration to the TEC that you made representations, but
received no Notice of Rejection of Reps. TEC will then cancel
the OfRs and the CCs and the matter then reverts to the PCN
stage.
>
> After the end date for payment of the CCs, you need to be
proactive, and to check the amount outstanding on the Newham
website. When it goes up by £10 to £205, the debt has been
registered and you can submit your SD. You don't even have to
wait for the Order for Recovery to arrive, because you can
download the form from the EC website.
>
> Your case does seem to be a bit of a Dog's Breakfast, and the
usual incompetence and stupidity of Newham is on display. Just
remember that Newham do not re-offer the discount after
rejecting representations, making it a total no-brainer to take
them to London Tribunals where you are sure to win, because
these signs have been declared as non-compliant by at least one
adjudicator.
>
--- End Quote ---
Thanks for looking into this for me and I know it’s a lot and I
did my best trying to explain everything as there were 6 PCNs
and very poor to non-existent communication from Newham.
#1 PN75748188 – paid and case closed
#2 PN75748213 – paid and case closed
#3 PN76007402 – This is what the post is about re Albert Way
#4 PN62628875 – never knew about this until they mentioned it in
the e-mail when dealing with #1 and #2
#5 PN62645400 – never knew about this until they mentioned it in
the e-mail when dealing with #1 and #2
#6 PN62647643 – never knew about this until they mentioned it in
the e-mail when dealing with #1 and #2
PN76007402
This is the Albert way one where I got the notice about on the
19th of December. I appealed as per original post but never got
a response, neither that they agree or rejected my appeal. Then
they sent me a Charge Certificate saying I never submitted a
representation which is just not true. While dealing with them I
found out about the other 3.
If the goal is to wait for Order for Recovery but what if they
never register it like they didn’t with the below 3?
PN62628875, PN62645400, PN62647643
And the other 3 that I found out about from their e-mail. All 3
are from 2021 and I never got anything in post from neither them
or the Tribunal so it’s hard to say what stage this is at. I
only accidently found out about them on that e-mail from the
council.
I never got any Order for Recovery for the above 3 and the
council website says that these are still at £195 each after
almost 5 years so nothing was registered. I read somewhere that
they have only 6 years to act on this and given their
incompetence it looks like they won’t do anything re this…
Unless the newly elected MP has other ideas!
#Post#: 50705--------------------------------------------------
Re: Newham, code 52m failing to comply with a prohibition on
certain type of vehicles, Royal Albert Way E16 & Gallions R
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: December 21, 2024, 2:43 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[member=3455]correcthaunt[/member] firstly what a mess, if you'd
appealed everything with our help we could have probably got
everything cancelled, you know for next time.
So here are your follow-up actions:
1) Stop all communication with the London Borough of Newham. The
more you contact them asking for a resolution, the more they
mess things up and the more work we have untangling everything.
Even if the council tries to help, they are incompetent and will
typically make things worse. Where you need to contact them for
a specific PCN, I have said so explicitly below.
2) You posted PCNs PN74748188 and PN75748213 here:
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/newham-code-52m-failing-to-comply-with-a-prohibition-on-certain-types-of-vehicle/<br
/>and I told you to follow the statutory process to get them
reset, instead you accepted the council's "offer" of a
discretionary reset which they would have been obliged to give
you anyway. Basically you've been mugged, but as I said you know
for next time.
3) For PCN PN76007402, there are no "tribunal letters" and if
you do nothing you will end up with an Order for Recovery. That
is not the end of the world, but it's far better to find out if
there is a Notice of Rejection. So, for this particular PCN,
make a subject access request to
InformationRightsTeam@newham.gov.uk asking for a copy of the
Notice of Rejection issued for this PCN to be emailed to you,
you will need to provide proof of ID and proof of address as per
the lists provided here:
HTML https://www.newham.gov.uk/contact-information/requesting-personal-information
If it turns out a Notice of Rejection does exist (which it
almost certainly does) then it will have been lost in the post,
but that doesn't matter as an appeal can still be filed, I can
also represent you at the tribunal, the location in question is
reasonably straightforward to win on appeal.
4) PN62628875, PN62645400, PN62647643: Two things here: firstly
make a separate Subject Access Request to
InformationRightsTeam@newham.gov.uk asking for a copy of all
information held in respect of these PCNs (you don't want it
mixed up with the request for PN76007402). Secondly do not send
any other communication to the council about these PCNs, in
particular do not "appeal" or make representations against them,
and do not ask them to "reset" them to £65 or to any other
amount, at the moment you're just on an information gathering
exercise.
For these three PCNs even though you have not received a charge
certificate we know one has been issued, therefore this time
please listen to me and follow the process described here:
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/announcements/charge-certificates-london-local-authorities-and-tfl-act-2003-london-local-autho/
We can almost certainly get these three PCNs cancelled
altogether, so if were to accept a "generous offer" from the
council to close these for £65 each, again you would just be
getting mugged.
#Post#: 51124--------------------------------------------------
Re: Newham, code 52m failing to comply with a prohibition on
certain type of vehicles, Royal Albert Way E16 & Gallions R
DIR By: correcthaunt
Date: December 27, 2024, 2:26 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: cp8759 link ---
>
> [member=3455]correcthaunt[/member] firstly what a mess, if
you'd appealed everything with our help we could have probably
got everything cancelled, you know for next time.
>
> So here are your follow-up actions:
>
> 1) Stop all communication with the London Borough of Newham.
The more you contact them asking for a resolution, the more they
mess things up and the more work we have untangling everything.
Even if the council tries to help, they are incompetent and will
typically make things worse. Where you need to contact them for
a specific PCN, I have said so explicitly below.
>
> 2) You posted PCNs PN74748188 and PN75748213 here:
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/newham-code-52m-failing-to-comply-with-a-prohibition-on-certain-types-of-vehicle/<br
/>and I told you to follow the statutory process to get them
reset, instead you accepted the council's "offer" of a
discretionary reset which they would have been obliged to give
you anyway. Basically you've been mugged, but as I said you know
for next time.
>
> 3) For PCN PN76007402, there are no "tribunal letters" and if
you do nothing you will end up with an Order for Recovery. That
is not the end of the world, but it's far better to find out if
there is a Notice of Rejection. So, for this particular PCN,
make a subject access request to
InformationRightsTeam@newham.gov.uk asking for a copy of the
Notice of Rejection issued for this PCN to be emailed to you,
you will need to provide proof of ID and proof of address as per
the lists provided here:
HTML https://www.newham.gov.uk/contact-information/requesting-personal-information
>
> If it turns out a Notice of Rejection does exist (which it
almost certainly does) then it will have been lost in the post,
but that doesn't matter as an appeal can still be filed, I can
also represent you at the tribunal, the location in question is
reasonably straightforward to win on appeal.
>
> 4) PN62628875, PN62645400, PN62647643: Two things here:
firstly make a separate Subject Access Request to
InformationRightsTeam@newham.gov.uk asking for a copy of all
information held in respect of these PCNs (you don't want it
mixed up with the request for PN76007402). Secondly do not send
any other communication to the council about these PCNs, in
particular do not "appeal" or make representations against them,
and do not ask them to "reset" them to £65 or to any other
amount, at the moment you're just on an information gathering
exercise.
>
> For these three PCNs even though you have not received a
charge certificate we know one has been issued, therefore this
time please listen to me and follow the process described here:
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/announcements/charge-certificates-london-local-authorities-and-tfl-act-2003-london-local-autho/
>
> We can almost certainly get these three PCNs cancelled
altogether, so if were to accept a "generous offer" from the
council to close these for £65 each, again you would just be
getting mugged.
>
--- End Quote ---
Agreed and in hindsight I should have reached out here first.
My action points:
1.
(LBN).
2.
HTML https://i.postimg.cc/dhNL7Nrq/Subject-Access-Request-Notice-of-Rejection-PCN-PN76007402.png
HTML https://postimg.cc/dhNL7Nrq
3.
to LBN.
HTML https://i.postimg.cc/8FFsLdmL/Subject-Access-Request-PCNs-PN62628875-PN62645400-PN62647643.png
HTML https://postimg.cc/8FFsLdmL
Got an OOO stating that they are not going to be back until 2nd
of January. Not sure how long they have to respond for these
requests, but I will chase them by 9th if I haven’t heard back.
4.
a.
website, so I don’t think this was registered with TEC. If it
hasn’t done you still want me to follow the process? And on
Monday I will call TEC on 0300 123 1059 to find out if these
were registered.
b.
c.
Court and ask someone to sign this for me?
d.
before I do the PE3?
e.
back to the court twice? If so, would I need to tick a different
option here?
5.
PN62645400 & PN62647643?
#Post#: 51966--------------------------------------------------
Re: Newham, code 52m failing to comply with a prohibition on
certain type of vehicles, Royal Albert Way E16 & Gallions R
DIR By: correcthaunt
Date: January 5, 2025, 6:00 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Hi [member=1]cp8759[/member],
HNY.
Please can you kindly take a look at my reply from the 27th when
you get a moment?
#Post#: 52485--------------------------------------------------
Re: Newham, code 52m failing to comply with a prohibition on
certain type of vehicles, Royal Albert Way E16 & Gallions R
DIR By: correcthaunt
Date: January 8, 2025, 11:48 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: cp8759 link ---
>
> firstly what a mess, if you'd appealed everything with our
help we could have probably got everything cancelled, you know
for next time.
>
> So here are your follow-up actions:
>
> 1) Stop all communication with the London Borough of Newham.
The more you contact them asking for a resolution, the more they
mess things up and the more work we have untangling everything.
Even if the council tries to help, they are incompetent and will
typically make things worse. Where you need to contact them for
a specific PCN, I have said so explicitly below.
>
> 2) You posted PCNs PN74748188 and PN75748213 here:
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/newham-code-52m-failing-to-comply-with-a-prohibition-on-certain-types-of-vehicle/<br
/>and I told you to follow the statutory process to get them
reset, instead you accepted the council's "offer" of a
discretionary reset which they would have been obliged to give
you anyway. Basically you've been mugged, but as I said you know
for next time.
>
> 3) For PCN PN76007402, there are no "tribunal letters" and if
you do nothing you will end up with an Order for Recovery. That
is not the end of the world, but it's far better to find out if
there is a Notice of Rejection. So, for this particular PCN,
make a subject access request to
InformationRightsTeam@newham.gov.uk asking for a copy of the
Notice of Rejection issued for this PCN to be emailed to you,
you will need to provide proof of ID and proof of address as per
the lists provided here:
HTML https://www.newham.gov.uk/contact-information/requesting-personal-information
>
> If it turns out a Notice of Rejection does exist (which it
almost certainly does) then it will have been lost in the post,
but that doesn't matter as an appeal can still be filed, I can
also represent you at the tribunal, the location in question is
reasonably straightforward to win on appeal.
>
> 4) PN62628875, PN62645400, PN62647643: Two things here:
firstly make a separate Subject Access Request to
InformationRightsTeam@newham.gov.uk asking for a copy of all
information held in respect of these PCNs (you don't want it
mixed up with the request for PN76007402). Secondly do not send
any other communication to the council about these PCNs, in
particular do not "appeal" or make representations against them,
and do not ask them to "reset" them to £65 or to any other
amount, at the moment you're just on an information gathering
exercise.
>
> For these three PCNs even though you have not received a
charge certificate we know one has been issued, therefore this
time please listen to me and follow the process described here:
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/announcements/charge-certificates-london-local-authorities-and-tfl-act-2003-london-local-autho/
>
> We can almost certainly get these three PCNs cancelled
altogether, so if were to accept a "generous offer" from the
council to close these for £65 each, again you would just be
getting mugged.
>
--- End Quote ---
Hi [member=1]cp8759[/member],
Please see an update for each point below.
My action points:
1. Stopped all communication with the London Borough of Newham
(LBN).
2. E-mail regarding PCN PN76007402 sent to LBN.
HTML https://i.postimg.cc/dhNL7Nrq/Subject-Access-Request-Notice-of-Rejection-PCN-PN76007402.png
HTML https://postimg.cc/dhNL7Nrq
30/12/2024 09:24 LBN responds saying this was passed to the
Parking Enforcement team and I should hear back by no later than
30 January 2025.
07/01/2025 Letter from Newham council arrives suggesting to get
in touch if I am struggling to afford to pay the outstanding
amount.
HTML https://i.postimg.cc/hQmzgCf8/Cost-of-living.png
HTML https://postimg.cc/hQmzgCf8
3. E-mail regarding PCN PN62628875, PN62645400 & PN62647643 sent
to LBN.
HTML https://i.postimg.cc/8FFsLdmL/Subject-Access-Request-PCNs-PN62628875-PN62645400-PN62647643.png
HTML https://postimg.cc/8FFsLdmL
30/12/2024 09:24 LBN responds saying this was passed to the
Parking Enforcement team and I should hear back by no later than
30 January 2025.
03/01/2025 11:12 LBN provides me the PDF of both the Notice and
the Charge letters that have never been received...
PN62628875
HTML https://i.postimg.cc/jDnNtQFS/PN62628875-response.png
HTML https://postimg.cc/jDnNtQFS
PN62645400
HTML https://i.postimg.cc/2qpW6bsF/PN62645400-response.png
HTML https://postimg.cc/2qpW6bsF
PN62647643
HTML https://i.postimg.cc/qz5nPZQF/PN62647643-response.png
HTML https://postimg.cc/qz5nPZQF
4. Questions:
a) 08/01/2025 I called the TEC on 0300 123 1059 and asked about
all 4 PCNs and none of them have been registered.
The owed amount is still showing as £195 GBP on the council
website for every single one of them.
[b]What do I do here now?[b]
b. Do I need this PE3 form for each PCN?
c. Could I just go to Stratford Magistrates' Court and Family
Court and ask someone to sign this for me?
d. Should I wait for the LBN to respond to my request first
before I do the PE3?
e. Can I do the PN76007402 as well just to save myself going
back to the court twice? If so, would I need to tick a different
option here?
5. Do you want me to create a separate thread for PN62628875,
PN62645400 & PN62647643?
#Post#: 52497--------------------------------------------------
Re: Newham, code 52m failing to comply with a prohibition on
certain type of vehicles, Royal Albert Way E16 & Gallions R
DIR By: Enceladus
Date: January 8, 2025, 12:25 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Re: PN62628875, PN62645400, PN62647643. Have your received
Orders for Recovery for each one? As I understand you all three
are still sitting at £195. So I think no OfRs have been issued,
so you cannot submit Statutory Declarations (form PE3).
You can get Statutory Declarations witnessed at a Magistrate's
Court (or a Solicitor) but you will likely need an appointment
and there will be a fee payable for each document. Not sure how
much in Stratford, guesstimate £10. That said you can get SD's
witnessed at a County Court for free. Some of the Court
officials are authorised to witness documents. Any convenient
County Court will do. However it's best to phone first and check
the opening hours and make an appointment if that's what they
want.
Do you want me to create a separate thread for PN62628875,
PN62645400 & PN62647643? For the moment leave these three
together, until a forum member asks you to separate. As things
stand your case(s) and what has and has not happened is too
confusing. And some of the members are easily confused.
Re: PN76007402. That's a separate thread already. I'll look into
it and post back later.
#Post#: 52501--------------------------------------------------
Re: Newham, code 52m failing to comply with a prohibition on
certain type of vehicles, Royal Albert Way E16 & Gallions R
DIR By: correcthaunt
Date: January 8, 2025, 12:32 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Enceladus link ---
>
> Re: PN62628875, PN62645400, PN62647643. Have your received
Orders for Recovery for each one? As I understand you all three
are still sitting at £195. So I think no OfRs have been issued,
so you cannot submit Statutory Declarations (form PE3).
>
> You can get Statutory Declarations witnessed at a Magistrate's
Court (or a Solicitor) but you will likely need an appointment
and there will be a fee payable for each document. Not sure how
much in Stratford, guesstimate £10. That said you can get SD's
witnessed at a County Court for free. Some of the Court
officials are authorised to witness documents. Any convenient
County Court will do. However it's best to phone first and check
the opening hours and make an appointment if that's what they
want.
>
> Do you want me to create a separate thread for PN62628875,
PN62645400 & PN62647643? For the moment leave these three
together, until a forum member asks you to separate. As things
stand your case(s) and what has and has not happened is too
confusing. And some of the members are easily confused.
>
> Re: PN76007402. That's a separate thread already. I'll look
into it and post back later.
>
--- End Quote ---
Re: PN62628875, PN62645400, PN62647643. I have not received RoF,
and this has happened back in 2021.
RE: Statutory Declarations. Got it so it has to be a County
Court and not Magistrates' Court.
RE New thread. I only found out about PN62628875, PN62645400 &
PN62647643 because of writing to council regarding 2 different
PCNs as explained above. This case was created for PN76007402.
I tried my hardest to make this as simple as possible but the
whole thing is a bit of a mess.
#Post#: 52525--------------------------------------------------
Re: Newham, code 52m failing to comply with a prohibition on
certain type of vehicles, Royal Albert Way E16 & Gallions R
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: January 8, 2025, 4:49 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[member=3455]correcthaunt[/member] for PN76007402 obviously the
council never received your representations. You send a
representation by post, that was obviously a mistake: anything
you send by post gets scanned into the computer and the paper
copy is immediately shredded, so it's a massive waste of time.
If you make a representation online it goes directly into the
council computer, so as well as being immediate, cheaper and
more environmentally friendly you avoid the risk of postal
issue. You now for next time. For now, all you can do is wait
for the debt to be registered.
For this PCN, follows the process outlined here:
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/announcements/charge-certificates-london-local-authorities-and-tfl-act-2003-london-l-1805/
For PN62628875, PN62645400, PN62647643, there's nothing you can
do aside from waiting for the debt to be registered with TEC.
Follow the process outlined here:
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/announcements/charge-certificates-london-local-authorities-and-tfl-act-2003-london-local-autho/
By law statutory declarations can be done at either the County
Court or the Magistrates' Court, but the County Court will be
easier because they do it all the time, the staff at the
Magistrates' Court might have no idea how the process works so
it's not really worth the hassle of having to deal with them. As
an alternative, any high street solicitor will normally do this
for around £10 / £15.
Once you've made the statutory declarations let me know, but do
not submit them before the debt is registered with TEC or
they'll just get rejected.
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