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#Post#: 50683--------------------------------------------------
Re: Rejected PCN - Hampshire County Council, 31J entering and
stopping in a box junction when prohibited
DIR By: MrChips
Date: December 21, 2024, 10:16 am
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As others have said, we have the notice of rejection but we need
to see the original PCN. Hampshire haven't been issuing these
for moving traffic offences very long so good chance they
contain errors Vs the statutory requirements.
That date inconsistency you mentioned sounds interesting. The
video shows a date or 25 October - are you saying it's from a
different date?
#Post#: 50684--------------------------------------------------
Re: Rejected PCN - Hampshire County Council, 31J entering and
stopping in a box junction when prohibited
DIR By: dapm2025
Date: December 21, 2024, 10:38 am
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Thanks to those that have posted - and also my apologies. I am a
frazzled mum of three and am getting myself in a pickle over
this! I got confused and the date of the contravention was
indeed 25th Oct, and the first PCN I received was dated 13th
Nov.
I've added the original PCN to the Imgur site and I'll try and
upload on the main page (still not sure if I'm doing things
right?!). Thank you!
@MrChips - your earlier comment is how I feel about it. I accept
I'm in the box, but it's the fact that I know the rules and
thought I was abiding by them as I was in line with the signage,
wasn't obstructing the fire station, and was conscious of not
obstructing the other lane of traffic. It's how cut and dry
they're making it... feels like such a money making exercise as
I'm not 'the type of person' that they need to target as I
consider myself 'law abiding'.
Having said that, I will also accept if you all think I should
just pay up and get on with it! :)
#Post#: 50691--------------------------------------------------
Re: Rejected PCN - Hampshire County Council, 31J entering and
stopping in a box junction when prohibited
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: December 21, 2024, 11:35 am
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[member=3793]dapm2025[/member] you have arguable grounds to
appeal, the grounds stated on the PCN and the council website
are both wrong.
On the PCN point, see Divya Shetty v Swindon Borough Council
(SI00031-2411, 11 December 2024)
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1vvbNvYaHKTYEQQRyJzmeI3ez4ZdQSC_q/view.
On the website point we have a plethora of decisions, the most
recent from the TPT being Gouri Shanker Chandel v City of
Bradford Metropolitan District Council (BQ00191-2408, 9 October
2024)
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1HbqdlqIK5bHDx2iYV34PfOyx3LdqD_rS/view.
Throw in a de-minimis argument and you probably have enough to
warrant carrying on, but obviously the outcome cannot be
guaranteed and it is possible another adjudicator might go the
other way, as there have been a few adverse decisions (though
they're a minority).
I'll drop you a PM if you'd like me to represent you.
#Post#: 50711--------------------------------------------------
Re: Rejected PCN - Hampshire County Council, 31J entering and
stopping in a box junction when prohibited
DIR By: MrChips
Date: December 21, 2024, 4:06 pm
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Another potential argument you could run if this goes to
tribunal is around what actually constitutes a box junction
offence. The wording in the legislation is "causing a vehicle
to enter the box junction so that the vehicle has to stop within
the box junction due to the presence of stationary vehicles".
By stopping right at the front of a very long box junction, I'd
argue that the footage doesn't show that you HAD to stop due to
the presence of stationary vehicles. Having measured the box on
google street view, it's a little over 20 metres long and the
car on the other side is a little beyond the far end.
When you stopped, the video runs only for another 8 seconds or
so. Over that time you could still have travelled through at
4-5 miles per hour and you wouldn't have reached the other end
before the video stops. As such, it doesn't necessarily show
that you had to stop within the box - you had the option to
drive slowly through it.
This is a secondary argument to apply only if the adjudicator
won't accept that your incursion into the box is too trivial to
constitute an offence.
#Post#: 56716--------------------------------------------------
Re: Rejected PCN - Hampshire County Council, 31J entering and
stopping in a box junction when prohibited
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: February 5, 2025, 6:07 am
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The council contested the appeal, so I put in a skeleton
argument based on de-minimis, the vehicle not being forced to
stop, the box being too long and the wrong ground for
representations being printed on the enforcement notice, and
suddenly the council decided they didn't want to play any more,
outcome here
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1JtJE7YK9QlDLqoBQyo-pzRMTcxVs9JBa/view.
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