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#Post#: 3746--------------------------------------------------
TFL 46: Stopped where prohibited (on a red route or clear way),
North Kerb Walford Road N16
DIR By: DolbyAtmos
Date: August 23, 2023, 4:22 am
---------------------------------------------------------
PCN number GX07059631
Hello, I managed to get caught by a TFL device as i went to pick
up my pre-ordered pizza from the nearby shop, was parked on the
single red line for less than 3-4 mins.
Is there any discrepancy on the paperwork TFL sent to me or on
the attached DVD video clip they sent to me 3 months after my
initial request ?
I have also attached a google location link.
Hoping the experts on this forum can find any inconsistencies.
TFL PCN Letter
HTML https://imgur.com/a/hBum6n9
Google Maps Link
HTML https://goo.gl/maps/uvuZE4QwFrrCuScx7
TFL CCTV Footage
HTML https://vimeo.com/855960768
Letter with TFL DVD Footage
HTML https://imgur.com/a/I58rBzZ
They don't have footage of the part where i exit the car, the
only footage you can see is of me returning to the car after 1
min of the CCTV locked on my car.
#Post#: 3749--------------------------------------------------
Re: TFL 46: Stopped where prohibited (on a red route or clear
way), North Kerb Walford Road N16
DIR By: John U.K.
Date: August 23, 2023, 5:05 am
---------------------------------------------------------
EDIT:
As far as I can see, re-reading the panel decision, camera
enforcement by TfL IS permissible on Double and single red
lines, but see what the experts here say. BUT you must find out
the deadline for reps. I also note that the upright sign
governing the SRL has been twisted away from sight since at
least 2021.
Mr Milton trying it on again.... words fail me.
Have a read of this
Panel decision:
Commercial Plant Services Ltd and others v Transport for London
Date:
25 May 2023
Case no:
2230060716 + Others
Subject:
CCTV
HTML https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/sites/default/files/keycases/Red%20Route%20Panel%20Decision.pdf
That said, the letter with the DVD says nothing about the
process - it has been on hold, presumably now no longer so.
Check the status online and/or ring TfL to ask when is the
deadline for paying discount/making reps (not that you should
pay at this stage).
#Post#: 3752--------------------------------------------------
Re: TFL 46: Stopped where prohibited (on a red route or clear
way), North Kerb Walford Road N16
DIR By: DolbyAtmos
Date: August 23, 2023, 5:46 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: John U.K. link ---
>
> EDIT:
> As far as I can see, re-reading the panel decision, camera
enforcement by TfL IS permissible on Double and single red
lines, but see what the experts here say. BUT you must find out
the deadline for reps. I also note that the upright sign
governing the SRL has been twisted away from sight since at
least 2021.
>
>
> Mr Milton trying it on again.... words fail me.
> Have a read of this
> Panel decision:
>
> Commercial Plant Services Ltd and others v Transport for
London
> Date:
> 25 May 2023
> Case no:
> 2230060716 + Others
> Subject:
> CCTV
>
>
HTML https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/sites/default/files/keycases/Red%20Route%20Panel%20Decision.pdf
>
> That said, the letter with the DVD says nothing about the
process - it has been on hold, presumably now no longer so.
> Check the status online and/or ring TfL to ask when is the
deadline for paying discount/making reps (not that you should
pay at this stage).
>
--- End Quote ---
Thanks for your response, you bring up a valid point that they
should provide next step guidelines and a deadline for paying\
challenging which they have not done so ! I have logged onto the
website with my PCN number to see deadline details when i go to
the "challenge a PCN" tab, again no deadline information there.
Will wait to see if there are any other comments from the board.
#Post#: 3931--------------------------------------------------
Re: TFL 46: Stopped where prohibited (on a red route or clear
way), North Kerb Walford Road N16
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: August 27, 2023, 8:40 am
---------------------------------------------------------
So there's a few interesting points here. The traffic order is
The GLA Roads and GLA Side Roads (Hackney) Red Route
Consolidation Traffic Order 2007
HTML https://drive.google.com/uc?id=1nKIasnoMqHziJSAr2N9ClJfbAK76Wwbg<br
/>and the relevant entry is number 183 on page 33:
[indent]
WALFORD ROAD, the north side from the extended southern building
line of No. 121 P.H. Stoke Newington Road to a point 13 metres
west of the extended eastern building line of No. 121 P.H. Stoke
Newington Road
[/indent]
It is certainly arguable that the traffic order does not
prohibit stopping where the vehicle stopped:
HTML https://i.imgur.com/slLES17.png
It would turn on whether the "extended eastern building line"
includes the extension that's been added to the eastern end of
the building. However even if we include that, the road markings
are wrong, though not as much:
HTML https://i.imgur.com/4B5J1Q6.png
It's unfortunate you didn't park on the other side of the road,
as The GLA Side Roads (London Borough of Hackney) Designation
Order 2007
HTML https://drive.google.com/uc?id=1ijMIBsqTPxhd2Wwdbbrd29_JxQKQXQGZ<br
/>suggests that the southern side isn't a GLA side road at all,
see page 24.
Anyway, the other issue that could win the day is the question
of camera approval, as happened yesterday in Anish Raj Shrestha
v Transport for London (2230256263, 26 August 2023)
HTML https://drive.google.com/uc?id=1dFUa8HEcUh2HyuDprMyvoP1NZ67kMZWA,<br
/>I have therefore requested details of the make and model of
the
CCTV camera.
For now I would urgently make a representation simply denying
the contravention, otherwise TFL might simply claim that you
didn't make representations within the 28 day period (which
expired months ago as far as I can see), I know they say the PCN
is put on hold when you request the DVD but whether they honour
that can be a bit hit and miss.
It would be helpful if you could give us the PCN number and
number plate so that we can check the online status of the
penalty.
#Post#: 4150--------------------------------------------------
Re: TFL 46: Stopped where prohibited (on a red route or clear
way), North Kerb Walford Road N16
DIR By: DolbyAtmos
Date: August 30, 2023, 10:39 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Hi cp8759,
Thank you for your response, i appreciate the trouble you have
gone through to get the details.
I will make representations denying the contravention.
Just to add my Registration number is YT66 HJA and the PCN
number is GX07059631.
Hopefully you get some information sent to you regarding the
make and model of the CCTV camera, which you can share. :)
Just to add, in the appeal section -after I have chosen the
contravention did not occur a further question is asked;
Supporting Evidence
Tell us more about why you want to challenge this PCN.
Should I mention the the CCTV camera is not approved + the
traffic order does not prohibit the vehicle stopping there ? Not
sure if i can leave that space blank.
#Post#: 4178--------------------------------------------------
Re: TFL 46: Stopped where prohibited (on a red route or clear
way), North Kerb Walford Road N16
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: August 30, 2023, 5:58 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Just say "the contravention did not occur", don't mention
anything else.
#Post#: 4992--------------------------------------------------
Re: TFL 46: Stopped where prohibited (on a red route or clear
way), North Kerb Walford Road N16
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: September 12, 2023, 5:05 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Just had this from TFL:
[indent]
The camera located outside 121 Stoke Newington Road is a TfL
Streets CCTV Camera No. 04/011417.
This is a Bosch Security MIC IP Starlight 7100i camera.
[/indent]
I don't believe TFL have a certificate for this particular model
of camera, if the camera isn't approved by the Secretary of
State then there is no power to serve a postal PCN. Therefore
service of the PCN is a procedural impropriety.
#Post#: 5553--------------------------------------------------
Re: TFL 46: Stopped where prohibited (on a red route or clear
way), North Kerb Walford Road N16
DIR By: DolbyAtmos
Date: September 20, 2023, 1:54 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: cp8759 link ---
>
> Just had this from TFL:
> [indent]
> The camera located outside 121 Stoke Newington Road is a TfL
Streets CCTV Camera No. 04/011417.
>
> This is a Bosch Security MIC IP Starlight 7100i camera.
> [/indent]
>
>
> I don't believe TFL have a certificate for this particular
model of camera, if the camera isn't approved by the Secretary
of State then there is no power to serve a postal PCN. Therefore
service of the PCN is a procedural impropriety.
>
--- End Quote ---
That is good to know, is there somewhere i can refer to this
info as evidence as i have Received the Notice of Reject today !
HTML https://i.imgur.com/zTw1CZu.jpeg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/cTSsZ4A.jpeg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/tLWSz0i.jpeg
#Post#: 5727--------------------------------------------------
Re: TFL 46: Stopped where prohibited (on a red route or clear
way), North Kerb Walford Road N16
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: September 21, 2023, 5:37 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
To make things significantly simpler, would you like me to
represent you at the tribunal?
#Post#: 5759--------------------------------------------------
Re: TFL 46: Stopped where prohibited (on a red route or clear
way), North Kerb Walford Road N16
DIR By: DolbyAtmos
Date: September 22, 2023, 5:52 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: cp8759 link ---
>
> To make things significantly simpler, would you like me to
represent you at the tribunal?
>
--- End Quote ---
Hi cp8759,
Thank you for your offer of representing me, If you insist on
representing me than i would be obliged. However if you are busy
but can point me to the correct reference material i can
represent myself at the tribunal. :)
Please PM me with best way to take this forward. Thank you.
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