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#Post#: 50582--------------------------------------------------
34j - Being in a bus lane - camera enforcement - Shepherd Bush
Rd Southbound Offside
DIR By: whatonearth
Date: December 20, 2024, 9:36 am
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Hello,
Two PCN's have dropped through the letterbox today for the same
offence on consecutive days. I think it's an absolute swizz -
the signage is confusing and appears after the buslane has
started. The buslane also appears to only last for about 20
metres before ending.
I've seen there is previous on this. Any advice and help would
be appreciated. Is the argument still valid from earlier posts ?
Many thanks
Street view of bus lane:
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/6MreLK93xoq8KvgK7
Article regarding previous judgement:
HTML https://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/the-shepherds-bush-bus-lane-which-raked-in-ps1m-with-confusing-signs-8498962.html
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 50614--------------------------------------------------
Re: 34j - Being in a bus lane - camera enforcement - Shepherd
Bush Rd Southbound Offside
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: December 20, 2024, 1:58 pm
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As you've found out, this is a "hardy annual" that continues to
deliver for this useless council.
May I suggest you do a search of the London Tribunals Statutory
Register, entering the location shown on the PCN.
HTML https://londontribunals.org.uk/ords/pwslive/f?p=14952:30::INITIALISE::Y::&cs=3AE3YXJT1pldK6_KBE6kEUOTF1Vk0Kh5bsJLFpFjOX7vz_d9gjWn4j7CcIiucxuWU5tmKAQC0SiL9t-vaRq0D9g
FOr the verdict, type in "Appeal allowed". This will bring up
all the successful cases
#Post#: 50624--------------------------------------------------
Re: 34j - Being in a bus lane - camera enforcement - Shepherd
Bush Rd Southbound Offside
DIR By: Hippocrates
Date: December 20, 2024, 3:08 pm
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Ah ah! My favourite place. I have won two recently and will PM
you my details and exactly what to say.
#Post#: 50658--------------------------------------------------
Re: 34j - Being in a bus lane - camera enforcement - Shepherd
Bush Rd Southbound Offside
DIR By: whatonearth
Date: December 21, 2024, 5:44 am
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--- Quote from: Hippocrates link ---
>
> Ah ah! My favourite place. I have won two recently and will
PM you my details and exactly what to say.
>
--- End Quote ---
Thank you Hippocrates. I would appreciate that. Looks like this
bus lane has been an absolute cash cow for the council !
#Post#: 50735--------------------------------------------------
Re: 34j - Being in a bus lane - camera enforcement - Shepherd
Bush Rd Southbound Offside
DIR By: Hippocrates
Date: December 22, 2024, 4:01 am
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PM sent.
#Post#: 50888--------------------------------------------------
Re: 34j - Being in a bus lane - camera enforcement - Shepherd
Bush Rd Southbound Offside
DIR By: Hippocrates
Date: December 23, 2024, 1:21 pm
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Dear Hammersmith and Fulham
Re PCN: HZ81783446
I challenge the PCN on the following grounds:
1. I am in possession of the special DFT authorisation for this
offside bus lane and it is clear that you have departed from the
agreed plan of the layout of the signage, in particular the 958
sign.
2. Notwithstanding that there is the said authorisation, I
refer you to this extract from a High Court decision:
R(Oxfordshire County Council) v The Bus Lane Adjudicator
[2010]EWHC 894 (Admin) Mr Justice Beatson confirmed that,
Para 65. The Defendant's submission that the fact that signs
are prescribed or authorised does not mean they are sufficient
for securing adequate information as to the effect of an order
is made available to road users is clearly correct. If the signs
do not in fact provide adequate information no offence is
committed;
I argue, therefore, that your departure from the DFT authorised
plan by placing the 958 sign AFTER the taper line substantially
exacerbates your problem concerning enforcement.
3. You have played fast and loose with the Traffic Signs Manual
in terms of the signs placed and their original and purposive
meaning. You have placed a warning sign (958) to indicate the
start of the lane and 959B signs as warning signs which normally
indicate the beginning of a with flow bus lane.
In light of the above, which clearly expresses this total
confusion of signage, I request that you cancel the PCN
forthwith.
#Post#: 63667--------------------------------------------------
Re: 34j - Being in a bus lane - camera enforcement - Shepherd
Bush Rd Southbound Offside
DIR By: Bustagate
Date: March 21, 2025, 1:14 pm
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Forgive my asking, but where is the diagram 959B (start of
with-flow bus lane)? I can't see it between the start of diagram
1049A (the thick white line at the outside of the bus lane) and
the end of diagram 1049A. Bus lanes are defined by the bundle of
diagram 1048 (BUS LANE road marking), diagram 1049A (thick white
line) and either diagram 959B (start of with-flow bus lane) or
diagram 960 (start of contraflow bus lane). Or am I missing
something (as the DfT traffic authorisation is pre-2011, it's
not available on-line, so I may be)?
Apart from diagrams 1048 and 1049A, all that I can see are:
- the lead-in taper (diagram 1010);
- a deflection arrow (diagram 1014);
- offside with-flow bus lane ahead (diagram 958).
These are all part of the advance signage and not part of the
bus lane. That begins where the thick white line starts. They're
advised in the Traffic Sign Manual but aren't legally required
(although an adjudicator may take a dim view if they aren't
there).
I can also see a diagram 959B for the nearside with-flow bus
lane, but that's irrelevant.
If diagram 959B doesn't lie as close as practicable to the start
of the bus lane, how is Hammersmith & Fulham able to allege that
a contravention has occurred? If appeals have been allowed based
on the absence of proper signage and it hasn't remedied the
defects, it's abusing the legal system by seeking to enforce
that which has been found to be unenforceable.
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