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       #Post#: 50522--------------------------------------------------
       Poor Quality Image - Speeding 
   DIR By: mkm123
       Date: December 19, 2024, 4:53 pm
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       I received a speeding NIP - the images were shockingly bad
       quality and it is impossible to see who was driving.
       Myself and my wife share a vehicle and we do not track who
       drives and when - on that particular day we were in and out and
       basically whoever gets in the car first drives.
       I contacted the senders and advised the above and I couldn't
       identify the driver at the time and from the image they supplied
       and asked if they had a better quality image for me to complete
       the form - they responded with uploading the video - the quality
       is just as shocking. We genuinely have no idea who was driving
       and have no idea what we are supposed to do - one of us is
       innocent and I have to also question the reliability of a camera
       recording our speed that can't record a decent quality image -
       it really is awful quality?
       Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
       #Post#: 50525--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Poor Quality Image - Speeding 
   DIR By: andy_foster
       Date: December 19, 2024, 5:23 pm
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       You have described a scenario where it would be feasible for the
       two of you not to know who was driving on a given occasion. We
       have heard the same scenario hundreds of times, as will the
       bench.
       You make no mention of any attempt to determine who was driving
       on that occasion, other than attempting to put the onus on the
       police to help you.
       If you are unable to determine who was driving, there is a
       defence available if you can persuade the court (on the balance
       of probabilities) both that you do not know who was driving and
       that you could not with reasonable diligence determine the
       identity of the driver. From what you have told us so far, you
       would struggle somewhat with at least the second limb.
       The evidence of the alleged speeding offence is all but
       irrelevant unless you are able to name the driver. The "all but"
       is that any credibility that you might have had for the s. 172
       defence would likely disappear.
       The "pragmatic" approach recommended by the forum (which I do
       not favour on principle), is that if you are genuinely unable to
       determine who was driving after exhausting reasonable diligence
       to try to find out, to name the most likely candidate.
       #Post#: 50528--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Poor Quality Image - Speeding 
   DIR By: mkm123
       Date: December 19, 2024, 5:36 pm
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       We have tried to work out who was driving but the location was
       very close to our home, within a couple of miles -  and drove
       that road a few times on the same day and did not notice the
       camera - so genuinely have no idea which of us was driving. as
       we share the car - only one car between us it isn't even a case
       of it being one of our cars and therefore one being more likely
       than the other to be the driver.
       #Post#: 50532--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Poor Quality Image - Speeding 
   DIR By: andy_foster
       Date: December 19, 2024, 6:41 pm
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       Just tell the bench that you tried hard. I'm sure that'll work
       out for you. Try not to complicate the issue by listing examples
       of what you did that constituted trying hard.
       #Post#: 50538--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Poor Quality Image - Speeding 
   DIR By: Southpaw82
       Date: December 20, 2024, 1:33 am
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       --- Quote from: mkm123 link ---
       >
       > I have to also question the reliability of a camera recording
       our speed that can't record a decent quality image - it really
       is awful quality?
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       The quality of the camera is irrelevant as regards any speed
       measurement. Speed isn’t measured by the camera at all.
       #Post#: 50560--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Poor Quality Image - Speeding 
   DIR By: Freecall
       Date: December 20, 2024, 6:02 am
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       --- Quote from: andy_foster link ---
       >
       > Just tell the bench that you tried hard. I'm sure that'll work
       out for you. Try not to complicate the issue by listing examples
       of what you did that constituted trying hard.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       ;D
       #Post#: 50651--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Poor Quality Image - Speeding 
   DIR By: Logician
       Date: December 21, 2024, 1:48 am
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       --- Quote from: mkm123 link ---
       >
       > We have tried to work out who was driving but the location was
       very close to our home, within a couple of miles -  and drove
       that road a few times on the same day and did not notice the
       camera - so genuinely have no idea which of us was driving. as
       we share the car - only one car between us it isn't even a case
       of it being one of our cars and therefore one being more likely
       than the other to be the driver.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       So you drove that road "a few times on the same day" but you
       have the time of the alleged offence so surely you can eliminate
       some of those trips, leaving a few to concentrate on. Try to
       remember the purpose of those trips, were you always together
       for a joint purpose or were some of those trips more for one of
       you than the other?
       I have to tell you that if the registered keeper fails to name a
       single driver, the court is very unlikely to accept that you
       have used reasonable diligence and will convict the keeper of
       failing to name the driver, which will result in an income
       related fine, costs and 6 points. Much as it may go against the
       grain in principle just to name the most likely driver, the way
       the system works, that is the pragmatic thing to do.
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