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#Post#: 49966--------------------------------------------------
Provisional licence and Pass certificate
DIR By: NewJudge
Date: December 15, 2024, 11:56 am
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The scene:
Driver unfortunately comes off the road and ends in a ditch. A
passing police vehicle investigates.
The driver is OK but the car obviously needs a tow out.
The police ask for her documents and she produces her insurance
certificate, provisional licence and pass certificate showing
she passed her test twelve months previously (she has two years
to exchange her licence for a full one).
The officer attending is happy but for some reason he reports
back to his sergeant for advice. A DVLA check is undertaken and
it shows, unsurprisingly, that the driver holds only a
provisional licence.
The officer at the scene is still content she was driving
legally, but the sergeant insists the vehicle is seized under
s165A as (he says) she was driving otherwise than in accordance
with her licence.
The vehicle is formally seized and she is told to produce a full
licence at the nick within seven days.
This has a satisfactory ending because a day or two later she
visits the nick, explains her situation and the car is released.
What are your views on the seizure?
#Post#: 49967--------------------------------------------------
Re: Provisional licence and Pass certificate
DIR By: Southpaw82
Date: December 15, 2024, 12:00 pm
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Unlawful due to no reasonable grounds to believe the vehicle was
being driven unlawfully. Also, no failure to produce a licence.
#Post#: 49988--------------------------------------------------
Re: Provisional licence and Pass certificate
DIR By: NewJudge
Date: December 15, 2024, 2:14 pm
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Thanks, sp.
I arrived at the same conclusion.
#Post#: 49995--------------------------------------------------
Re: Provisional licence and Pass certificate
DIR By: mickR
Date: December 15, 2024, 3:00 pm
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on the up side she got free recovery from the ditch.
was she inconvenienced? maybe a letter to the CC incoming them
of the questionable actions of the Sargent.
#Post#: 49998--------------------------------------------------
Re: Provisional licence and Pass certificate
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: December 15, 2024, 3:21 pm
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Insurance must be updated to full licence. I assume that was
done.
#Post#: 50021--------------------------------------------------
Re: Provisional licence and Pass certificate
DIR By: NewJudge
Date: December 15, 2024, 5:19 pm
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No she wasn't inconvenienced and will not be making a complaint.
I was participating in a thread elsewhere concerning this. I
came in partway through and nobody had raised the possibility of
an unlawful seizure. I suggested it was because for a seizure to
be lawful under s165A the driver must firstly fail to produce
his licence and then - and only then - the police must have
reasonable grounds for believing that he was driving in
contravention of section 87(1).
This driver produced her licence plus pass certificate, so the
matter should have ended there.
There were arguments that the police might have doubted the
veracity of her pass certificate, they may have been suspicious
because it was a year old but the most popular argument in
favour of the police was that they had "reasonable grounds"
because (unsurprisingly) the DVLA only showed her as a
provisional licence holder.
I argued (ultimately successfully) that this situation could
apply to anybody who had not yet exchanged their licence for a
full one and the stance taken by the police (the sergeant back
at the nick rather than the officer at the scene) was ludicrous
when they had evidence in front of them that the driver was
driving legally. There was also the usual confusion between
being licenced (i.e. having he entitlement) to drive and
physically holding a valid licence.
Thanks for your contributions.
#Post#: 50033--------------------------------------------------
Re: Provisional licence and Pass certificate
DIR By: nigelbb
Date: December 16, 2024, 1:04 am
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It must be an unusual situation to have to apply for a full
licence, In the past couple of years I have spent many hours in
the passenger seat accompanying two learner drivers. When they
subsequently passed the driving test the DVLA automatically sent
them their full licences which arrived within 7-10 days of the
test.
#Post#: 50036--------------------------------------------------
Re: Provisional licence and Pass certificate
DIR By: 666
Date: December 16, 2024, 1:43 am
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--- Quote from: nigelbb link ---
>
> It must be an unusual situation to have to apply for a full
licence, In the past couple of years I have spent many hours in
the passenger seat accompanying two learner drivers. When they
subsequently passed the driving test the DVLA automatically sent
them their full licences which arrived within 7-10 days of the
test.
>
--- End Quote ---
It's not automatic. The examiner asks whether you want that, and
if so you must give him your provisional.
#Post#: 50061--------------------------------------------------
Re: Provisional licence and Pass certificate
DIR By: NewJudge
Date: December 16, 2024, 6:41 am
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--- Quote ---
> It's not automatic. The examiner asks whether you want that,
and if so you must give him your provisional.
--- End Quote ---
Yes that's correct.
The young lady in my tale declined to do that because she needed
it in connection with her work very shortly after her test. She
knew she had two years to make the swap and simply left it for a
while.
#Post#: 50080--------------------------------------------------
Re: Provisional licence and Pass certificate
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: December 16, 2024, 8:06 am
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I'm surprised you get two years before you have to apply for a
full licence. Does this really mean you can drive for two years
with just a pass certificate provided you told your insurer you
passed? What happens with penalty points and probation?
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