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#Post#: 54758--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hackney Bus Lane - Hackney Road, no signs
DIR By: LondonTraveller84
Date: January 23, 2025, 12:42 pm
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I guess the question is at adjudication would the fact the sign
is somewhat difficult to see be a valid reason, as it could be
that it meets the regulations and ownes is on drive to ensure
they check even if they have to look right first for oncoming
traffice?
attached anotehr two image I am looking to use I guess if i take
this further, one showing teh sign as you approach but on teh
side, you can see a van basically parrallel to it as it turning
to give an idea. A second showing when im on the corner and
about to turn, in one way if you look for teh sign you'll see
it, ie now that I know, otherwise no i guess.
Letter was dated 10th, would 14th day be today or tomorrow?
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 54808--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hackney Bus Lane - Hackney Road, no signs
DIR By: Hippocrates
Date: January 23, 2025, 4:28 pm
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--- Quote from: LondonTraveller84 link ---
>
> Hi All,
>
> As expected received a response from the council rejecting the
appeal, yet still offering discounted rate - Await your feedback
and how best to proceed, as I guess we would literall be stating
the same points?
>
>
HTML https://imgur.com/a/UM6cmKh
>
--- End Quote ---
Wait for the Enforcement Notice.
#Post#: 61731--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hackney Bus Lane - Hackney Road, no signs
DIR By: LondonTraveller84
Date: March 10, 2025, 3:07 pm
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Hi All, received the enforcement letter, a few weeks back, see
attached,
HTML https://imgur.com/a/yOeNGoR
I have attached some photos i took hoping I can use in my
defence -
HTML https://imgur.com/a/STlk39O
I believe the only defence is that 1 the position of the sign
and 2 the oncoming traffic and 3 visiblity of both previous
combined made it difficult?
The only point they made in their reply was that there was
signange on the floor, how do I get around that?
#Post#: 61765--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hackney Bus Lane - Hackney Road, no signs
DIR By: Hippocrates
Date: March 10, 2025, 5:04 pm
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(2)An enforcement notice must state—
(a)the amount of the penalty charge payable;
(b)the grounds on which the council believe that a penalty
charge is payable with respect to the vehicle;
(c)that the penalty charge must be paid before the end of the
period of 28 days beginning with the date on which the
enforcement notice is served;
(d)that failure to pay the penalty charge may lead to an
increased charge being payable;
(e)the amount of that increased charge;
HTML https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukla/1996/9/schedule/1/enacted
The law is silent with regard to making of representations
deadline.
I suggest this and do no not engage with their first letter.
Please do not provide any pictures: let them prove their case.
Your pictures can be kept for the Fifth Set and I am more than
happy to represent you. I have not lost a bus lane case in the
last 4 years since I have been back in the game. 8) Hence, in
part, my Petition.
Dear TH
I require you to consider my initial challenge as formal
representations against the EN.
Please cancel the PCN and EN.
****
For the back burner: website clearly fetters to theft:
The vehicle had been taken without the keepers consent (stolen)
Let me think about adding something along the lines of Egenti v
Islington on this issue. We do not have much time. 16th March.
#Post#: 61779--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hackney Bus Lane - Hackney Road, no signs
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: March 10, 2025, 5:49 pm
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I think they'll lose on the signage aloneat adjudication as the
bus lane sign is clearly placed for traffic on the main road and
there is no bus lane warning as per the traffic signs manual
below.
Coincidentally I cycled around there on a. bike ride today.
--------
HTML https://i.imgur.com/CffAVZh.png
#Post#: 61784--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hackney Bus Lane - Hackney Road, no signs
DIR By: Hippocrates
Date: March 10, 2025, 5:59 pm
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Exactly. But they are dumb and we should not do their job for
them. Pepipoo had a case years ago which Mr Houghton allowed on
this issue. All I remember it was an Islington case.
#Post#: 62019--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hackney Bus Lane - Hackney Road, no signs
DIR By: LondonTraveller84
Date: March 11, 2025, 6:56 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Hippocrates link ---
>
> (2)An enforcement notice must state—
> (a)the amount of the penalty charge payable;
> (b)the grounds on which the council believe that a penalty
charge is payable with respect to the vehicle;
> (c)that the penalty charge must be paid before the end of the
period of 28 days beginning with the date on which the
enforcement notice is served;
> (d)that failure to pay the penalty charge may lead to an
increased charge being payable;
> (e)the amount of that increased charge;
>
>
HTML https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukla/1996/9/schedule/1/enacted
>
> The law is silent with regard to making of representations
deadline.
>
--- End Quote ---
Am I missing something here, they've stated al 5 (a-e) in the
EN? as for the deadline, surely its straight forward
i. If we count the day of the notice as day 1, then its 12th
ii. If we take 24 hours from the day of notice as day 1, then
its 13th?
iii. I have heard of this +2 days for postage but always scared
to test it. :-[
--- Quote from: Hippocrates link ---
>
> For the back burner: website clearly fetters to theft:
> The vehicle had been taken without the keepers consent
(stolen)
>
> Let me think about adding something along the lines of Egenti
v Islington on this issue. We do not have much time. 16th March.
>
--- End Quote ---
1. Egenti v Islington - Very interesting, just had a read of
your post on this! just surpises me the level of appeals and
reasons, that your average joe wouldn't even dare to think or
consider - So our defene here is the CCTV, doesn't show the
conditions around my entry, ie looking left, weather and others,
obstacles etc, hence not a full picture? I was going to say I
entered further down, having missed the sign, and no further
signs were seen.
2. The vehicle had been taken without the keepers consent
(stolen) - Surely we can't use this, they'd want proof and also
police report and what not?
I will await to see if you guys want me to add anything further,
otherwise will reply tomorrow (12th) with your reply, with no
pictures at this stage, although confident they'll reject on
same grounds, should we not be adding some further reasonings
for them to consider?
#Post#: 62021--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hackney Bus Lane - Hackney Road, no signs
DIR By: LondonTraveller84
Date: March 11, 2025, 7:02 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: stamfordman link ---
>
> I think they'll lose on the signage aloneat adjudication as
the bus lane sign is clearly placed for traffic on the main road
and there is no bus lane warning as per the traffic signs manual
below.
>
HTML https://i.imgur.com/CffAVZh.png
>
--- End Quote ---
It doesn't seem to say the sign is required or mandatory, rather
it 'may be' and 'most likely'? or am i being too kind and
innocent here. Although I do agree with the fact that the sign
does seem more for the main road, rather then side road.
#Post#: 62026--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hackney Bus Lane - Hackney Road, no signs
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: March 11, 2025, 7:51 pm
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Everything hinges on their duty in The Local Authorities’
Traffic Orders (Procedure) (England and Wales) Regulations 1996
Regulation 18: -
HTML https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1996/2489/regulation/18
The problem, like so much in English law is use of words that
are subjective, and here the word is "adequate". Your
inadequate, can be the adjudicators "adequate". However, I think
if a turn left out of a side road took you straight into a bus
lane, and there was no sign, then an adjudicator would normally
rule the signing is inadeqhate.
#Post#: 62039--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hackney Bus Lane - Hackney Road, no signs
DIR By: coffee pot
Date: March 12, 2025, 4:03 am
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I won against Brighton council for travelling in a bus lane
because I had accessed it by coming the other way down the same
road and going right round the roundabout to return up the road
which it turned out was entirely a bus lane. Unfortunately, they
hadn't realised that anyone could or would do that and there was
no signage that it was a bus lane until I was in it, when it
said bus lane on the road. They didn't even bother to turn up.
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