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#Post#: 49267--------------------------------------------------
Private parking charge, obscure sign
DIR By: alex777
Date: December 10, 2024, 5:40 pm
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Dear friends,
Can someone advice how to defend private parking charge in
court. Car was parked like this, no lines or markings on the
road, opposite the sign. Is this road sign misleading enough.
Multistorey buildings in residential area.
Thank you
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 49270--------------------------------------------------
Re: Private parking charge, obscure sign
DIR By: mickR
Date: December 10, 2024, 6:30 pm
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what did you recive before the letter you've posted???
and did you reply?
post everything using an external host as per...
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/private-parking-tickets/read-this-first-private-parking-charges-forum-guide/
#Post#: 49295--------------------------------------------------
Re: Private parking charge, obscure sign
DIR By: b789
Date: December 11, 2024, 4:25 am
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That sign is incapable of forming a contract. Easily defended if
it goes to court.
The letter from Moorside Legal, relatively new kids on the block
when it comes to bulk litigators, is simply a debt collection
letter which you ignore and som ot respond to.
If/when you receive an actual Letter of Claim (LoC) come back
and show us.
#Post#: 49410--------------------------------------------------
Re: Private parking charge, obscure sign
DIR By: alex777
Date: December 11, 2024, 2:02 pm
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--- Quote from: mickR link ---
>
> what did you recive before the letter you've posted???
> and did you reply?
> post everything using an external host as per...
>
>
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/private-parking-tickets/read-this-first-private-parking-charges-forum-guide/
>
--- End Quote ---
Before this was a ton of letters from Trace. Did not reply to
any of the letters, have not appealed.
Have about 5-7 of the same parking charges from PCM, same road
sign. Does it make sense to ask for a 'proof of debt' etc
What could be the arguments about this particular road sign in
court?
#Post#: 49503--------------------------------------------------
Re: Private parking charge, obscure sign
DIR By: b789
Date: December 12, 2024, 6:54 am
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For now, just wait and see if/when they send a Letter of Claim
(LoC) and how many of the outstanding PCNs are lumped together
(or not) in the LoC.
#Post#: 53855--------------------------------------------------
Re: Private parking charge, obscure sign
DIR By: alex777
Date: January 17, 2025, 11:44 am
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Received letter of claim now plus reply form
HTML https://limewire.com/d/f921d85c-649d-475b-a37b-c9f2092874f5#hEE77lYWB-E2HKBVkULDgs8Mx2ZCVRXuWfd7xb6hbh4
HTML https://limewire.com/d/f921d85c-649d-475b-a37b-c9f2092874f5#hEE77lYWB-E2HKBVkULDgs8Mx2ZCVRXuWfd7xb6hbh4
Do I fill BOX I and ask for all possible contracts and proof
etc? Reply now or wait towards end of 30 days?
Somehow Moor Legal managed to put early date on a letter, letter
traveled 8 days or so, royal mail C9 10017.
Return address says MAILSMART, PO box 61278, MBA HOUSE, GARMAN
ROAD, LONDON, N17 1DS
Whats the best way to reply, royal mail tracked delivery to PO
box? Or is there a better course of action entirely.
#Post#: 53883--------------------------------------------------
Re: Private parking charge, obscure sign
DIR By: b789
Date: January 17, 2025, 7:55 pm
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You do NOT fill in any of the forms in the LoC. You do not have
to respond to an LoC. If you feel the urge to respond, you send
your response as a PDF letter attached to an email.
Never use tracked or recorded delivery. If you insist on using
snail mail, you send anything first class and you get a free
certificate of posting from any post office. A first class
letter that is certified as posted is deemed delivered two
working days later and that is all the evidence you would need
according to the Interpretation Act.
Moorside Legal aspire a form of failed wannabe legal amateurs
who are going to screw up the claim spectacularly by completely
failing to comply with CPR 16.4(1) which is a surefire way of
getting the claim struck out at allocation stage.
All you need to do, if you feel the urge to respond to their LoC
is ask them a simple question that then dons them in the more
when they mendaciously respond by admitting their fraudulent
withholding of VAT from HMRC.
Send the following to Moorside Legal if you must:
--- Quote ---
> Moorside Legal
> PO Box 1418
> Bradford
> BD19GP
>
> By email to: help@ moorsidelegal.co.uk
>
> Ref: [PCN number]
>
> [Date]
>
> Dear Sirs,
>
> Your Letter Before Claim dated [date] contains insufficient
detail of the claim and fails to provide copies of evidence your
client places reliance upon and thus is in complete
contravention of the Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims.
>
> I am the registered keeper of the vehicle. I am not obliged to
identify the driver and I decline to do so. As there is no legal
presumption that the keeper of a vehicle was its driver on any
particular occasion, your client cannot pursue me as driver as
per VCS v Edward H0KF6C9C [2023].
>
> As you and your client are well aware, there can be no keeper
liability as defined in Schedule 4 to the Protection of Freedoms
Act 2012 as they have not fully complied with all the
requirements of the Act. So your client cannot pursue me as
keeper.
>
> As your client cannot pursue me as driver or keeper, it would
be an abuse of the court’s process for your client to issue a
claim against me and I will defend any such claim vigorously and
seek costs in relation to your client’s unreasonable and
vexatious conduct under Part 27.14(2)(g)
>
> As your letter lacks specificity and breaches the requirements
of the Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims (paragraphs
3.1(a)-(d), 5.1 and 5.2) as well as the Practice Direction -
Pre-Action Conduct (paragraphs 6(a) and 6(c)), you must treat
this letter as a formal request for all of the
documents/information that the protocol now requires your client
to provide. Your client must not issue proceedings without
complying with that protocol.
>
> As solicitors you must surely be familiar with the
requirements of both the Practice Direction and the Pre-Action
Protocol for debt claims and your client, as a serial litigator
of debt claims, should likewise be aware of them. As you (and
your client) must know, the Practice Direction and Protocol bind
all potential litigants, whatever the size or type of the claim.
Its express purpose is to assist parties in understanding the
claim and their respective positions in relation to it, to
enable parties to take stock of their positions and to negotiate
a settlement, or at least narrow the issues, without incurring
the costs of court proceedings or using up valuable court time.
It is embarrassing that a firm of Solicitors are sending a
consumer a vague and un-evidenced 'Letter Before Claim' in
complete ignorance of the pre-existing Practice Direction and
the Pre-Action Protocol.
>
> I confirm that, once I am in receipt of a Letter Before Claim
that complies with the requirements of para 3.1 (a) of the
Pre-Action Protocol, I shall then seek advice and submit a
formal response within 30 days, as required by the Protocol.
Thus, I require your client to comply with its obligations by
sending me the following information/documents:
>
> [indent]1. An explanation of the cause of action
> 2. whether they are pursuing me as driver or keeper
> 3. whether they are relying on the provisions of Schedule 4 of
POFA 2012
> 4. what the details of the claim are; for how long it is
claimed the vehicle was parked, how the monies being claimed
arose and have been calculated
> 5. Is the claim for a contractual breach? If so, what is the
date of the agreement? The names of the parties to it and
provide to me a copy of that contract.
> 6. If the claim is for a contractual breach, photographs
showing the vehicle was parked in contravention of said
contract.
> 7. Is the claim for trespass? If so, provide details.
> 8. Provide me a copy of the contract with the landowner under
which they assert authority to bring the claim, as required by
the IPC Code of Practice v9 Appendix 1 of the alleged
contravention took place before 1st October 2024 or the BPA/IPC
Private Parking Single Code of Practice after that date.
> 9. a plan showing where any signs were displayed
> 10. Photographs of the signs displayed (size of sign, size of
font, height at which displayed) at the time of any alleged
contravention.
> 11. Provide details of the original charge, and detail any
interest and administrative or other charges added
> 12. Am I to understand that the additional £70 represents what
is dressed up as a 'Debt Recovery' fee, and if so, is this nett
or inclusive of VAT? If the latter, would you kindly explain why
I am being asked to pay the operator’s VAT?
> 13. With regard to the principal alleged PCN sum: Is this
damages, or will it be pleaded as consideration for
parking?[/indent]
>
> I am clearly entitled to this information under paragraphs
6(a) and 6(c) of the Practice Direction. I also need it in order
to comply with my own obligations under paragraph 6(b).
>
> If your client does not provide me with this information then
I put you on notice that I will be relying on the cases of Webb
Resolutions Ltd v Waller Needham & Green [2012] EWHC 3529 (Ch),
Daejan Investments Limited v The Park West Club Limited (Part
20) Buxton Associates [2003] EWHC 2872, Charles Church
Developments Ltd v Stent Foundations Limited & Peter Dann
Limited [2007] EWHC 855 in asking the court to impose sanctions
on your client and to order a stay of the proceedings, pursuant
to paragraphs 13, 15(b) and (c) and 16 of the Practice
Direction, as referred to in paragraph 7.2 of the Protocol.
>
> Until your client has complied with its obligations and
provided this information, I am unable to respond properly to
the alleged claim and to consider my position in relation to it,
and it is entirely premature (and a waste of costs and court
time) for your client to issue proceedings. Should your client
do so, then I will seek an immediate stay pursuant to paragraph
15(b) of the Practice Direction and an order that this
information is provided.
>
> Yours faithfully
--- End Quote ---
#Post#: 53994--------------------------------------------------
Re: Private parking charge, obscure sign
DIR By: alex777
Date: January 18, 2025, 5:43 pm
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So I just ignore LoC now and wait for? Does replying to LoC make
sense or not.
I have uploaded all files and original PCM parking charge notice
if it is useful to someone:
HTML https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1VPXj1vc7uHI9UdwMS_UmmV6qgh1t6UBl?usp=sharing
Thank you very much,
Alex
#Post#: 54004--------------------------------------------------
Re: Private parking charge, obscure sign
DIR By: b789
Date: January 18, 2025, 6:51 pm
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Well, I put together the LoC response above. You may as well
send it and make them earn their money.
It won’t change the outcome because they will ignore most of it
and still issue the claim. However, besides their fatal mistake
of not complying with CPR 16.4(1)(a), it will allow you to use
additional points for your defence.
You are dealing with a firm of low-rate, bottom-dwelling legals
who really are pretty useless. Have bit of fun with the losers.
Out of interest, the image of the Notice to Driver (NtD), the
time, vehicle colour and make are missing. Where thy there and
you have redacted them? If so, why did you redact the time of
the PCN issue?
#Post#: 54264--------------------------------------------------
Re: Private parking charge, obscure sign
DIR By: alex777
Date: January 20, 2025, 3:41 pm
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Yes, there is a time of notice issue, vehicle make, colour,
registration, site name.
Moor Legal can be reading all this and kind of figure out who
the notice was issued to.
Plenty of photos from all sides with the vehicle parked at the
kerb with no white lines around it.
Also 3 more vehicles parked in the same unmarked area, local
residents.
So are they obliged to reply to my letter or can they just
ignore it?
Thank you,
Alex
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