DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
---------------------------------------------------------
FreeTrafficLegalAdvice
HTML https://ftla.createaforum.com
---------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************************
DIR Return to: Private parking tickets
*****************************************************
#Post#: 49092--------------------------------------------------
NCP Parking PCNs – No Payment – Chobham Academy Stratford
DIR By: correcthaunt
Date: December 9, 2024, 2:09 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Background
The driver has been playing football at the Chobham Academy
Stratford for the last 4 years or so. Always after work so past
the 17:00 o’clock mark. There was no signage back in the day and
then when they put one up at the location it was reviewed once.
Although it was confusingly worded, it read something along the
lines: “Parking is only chargeable between 06:00 - 16:00 every
weekday on Monday – Friday” and the understanding was that
during the school hours one had to pay a small fee (under £2).
No Recollection to the weekend tariffs. The driver proceeded to
use the car park to play occasional games (the driver lost count
to give the exact number but easily +30 games) since pre-COVID,
on both weekdays and weekends.
Alleged Contravention 1 (AC1)
01.07.2024 - Upon entering the car park, the driver found a
space, parked up, and went for their football game that lasted
around 45min. Just like before the driver has left the car park
without having paid.
AC1 PCN to Keeper
HTML https://i.postimg.cc/KR7GXVyg/AC1-PCN-to-Keeper.png
HTML https://postimg.cc/KR7GXVyg
AC1 Final Reminder
HTML https://i.postimg.cc/XXCNLqHL/AC1-Final-Reminder.png
HTML https://postimg.cc/XXCNLqHL
Alleged Contravention 2 (AC2)
08.07.2024 - Upon entering the car park, the driver found a
space, parked up, and went for their football game that lasted
around 45min. Just like before the driver has left the car park
without having paid.
AC2 PCN to Keeper was never issued/delivered.
AC2 Final Reminder
HTML https://i.postimg.cc/LnF9bSGp/AC2-Final-Reminder.png
HTML https://postimg.cc/LnF9bSGp
I, the registered keeper of the vehicle, spend half my time in
one address in Bristol (where the car is registered to) and
other half in a London address. I, the registered keeper was at
the time in London after which I drove to Europe and didn’t
return back to the UK until mid-August. All three of the
documents listed above were seen mid-August, past the discounted
time-period.
Upon my return to the UK and seeing the letters sent to Bristol.
I made my way to Chobham Academy Stratford. Upon arrival, I
found new signage in place which must have been replaced
somewhere after 8th of July and before my visit in August. As
such I cannot post any photos of the signage in the car park as
they have changed this since issuing the letters.
The PCN references do not load on the NCP website so I was never
able to see all of their pictures. Just the ones provided in the
above letters as their website said/says “Unfortunately you are
unable to appeal this charge at this time.”
Here is a google link to the location:
The sign used to be yellow next to the green box thing where
security sits post covid.
HTML https://www.google.com/maps/@51.550255,-0.007851,63m/data=!3m1!1e3?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI0MTIwNC4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D<br
/>
Pre COVID there was nothing other to say this is private car
park:
HTML https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5503421,-0.0079526,3a,90y,341.79h,92.32t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sEkoS1fVAM1tpoPgQCGSJrA!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D-2.3227332793832574%26panoid%3DEkoS1fVAM1tpoPgQCGSJrA%26yaw%3D341.78932322090947!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI0MTIwNC4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D
And this at the entrance:
HTML https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5500103,-0.0078454,3a,51.3y,5.88h,83.3t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1swpXlmr6PFIUSnIdSoEGoPQ!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D6.702524895624293%26panoid%3DwpXlmr6PFIUSnIdSoEGoPQ%26yaw%3D5.881104322805278!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI0MTIwNC4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D<br
/>
I then asked the security guard about the old sign and if there
were any pictures of it and was told no, and that this carpark’s
signage was replaced recently.
I have since received letters from Trace Debt Recovery for £170
each, where I got more letters for one incident than the other
as I think they are confusing them.
Now at the end of November I got a letter from Moorside Legal
asking for £277 for each incident.
I only just realised today that these are in fact 2 separate
incidents due to inconsistent letters.
I haven’t contacted anyone yet… should I reach out to their
solicitors and tell them that they cannot possibly expect the
payment when the signage was changed… or should I wait for the
claim form.
Any help is greatly appreciated.
#Post#: 49118--------------------------------------------------
Re: NCP Parking PCNs – No Payment – Chobham Academy Stratford
DIR By: DWMB2
Date: December 9, 2024, 4:08 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Welcome to FTLA.
Can you please show us the letter you have received from
Moorside Legal?
As a semi-related aside: I note your comments about splitting
your time between two places of residence. If this arrangement
means you are away from the address where your vehicle is
registered for extended periods, then you need to consider some
means by which you can receive and respond to post in a timely
manner.
#Post#: 49145--------------------------------------------------
Re: NCP Parking PCNs – No Payment – Chobham Academy Stratford
DIR By: b789
Date: December 9, 2024, 6:31 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
The first Notice to Keeper (NtK) is not PoFA compliant and
judging by the date of the contravention and the date of the
reminder of the second one, neither is that one.
They only know that you are the Keeper and have no idea who the
driver is. There is no legal obligation on the Keeper to
identify the driver. As the NtKs are not PoFA compliant, only
the driver can be liable.
If this goes any further, they would get spanked in court if
they tried to sue the Keeper.
So, in the words of Dads Army… “Don’t tell ‘em your name Pike”.
Under no circumstances is the driver to be identified,
inadvertently or otherwise, if you want this to eventually go
away.
#Post#: 49149--------------------------------------------------
Re: NCP Parking PCNs – No Payment – Chobham Academy Stratford
DIR By: correcthaunt
Date: December 10, 2024, 12:49 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: DWMB2 link ---
>
> Welcome to FTLA.
>
> Can you please show us the letter you have received from
Moorside Legal?
>
> As a semi-related aside: I note your comments about splitting
your time between two places of residence. If this arrangement
means you are away from the address where your vehicle is
registered for extended periods, then you need to consider some
means by which you can receive and respond to post in a timely
manner.
>
--- End Quote ---
Yes please see the letters:
Moorside Legal AC1
HTML https://i.postimg.cc/gL02ZJk8/Moorside-Legal-AC1.png
HTML https://postimg.cc/gL02ZJk8
Moorside Legal AC2
HTML https://i.postimg.cc/BtZ6yhcb/Moorside-Legal-AC2.png
HTML https://postimg.cc/BtZ6yhcb
Noted regarding the post.
#Post#: 49150--------------------------------------------------
Re: NCP Parking PCNs – No Payment – Chobham Academy Stratford
DIR By: correcthaunt
Date: December 10, 2024, 12:52 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: b789 link ---
>
> The first Notice to Keeper (NtK) is not PoFA compliant and
judging by the date of the contravention and the date of the
reminder of the second one, neither is that one.
>
> They only know that you are the Keeper and have no idea who
the driver is. There is no legal obligation on the Keeper to
identify the driver. As the NtKs are not PoFA compliant, only
the driver can be liable.
>
> If this goes any further, they would get spanked in court if
they tried to sue the Keeper.
>
> So, in the words of Dads Army… “Don’t tell ‘em your name
Pike”.
>
> Under no circumstances is the driver to be identified,
inadvertently or otherwise, if you want this to eventually go
away.
>
--- End Quote ---
So I, the registered keeper, just wait to see if they wish to
proceed through the courts. Until then nothing to do?
#Post#: 49152--------------------------------------------------
Re: NCP Parking PCNs – No Payment – Chobham Academy Stratford
DIR By: DWMB2
Date: December 10, 2024, 1:51 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Yes - those letters from Moorside are not letters of claim from
the looks of them. If they do issue a Letter of Claim come back
here. Again, if they do they should issue one claim covering
both parking charges.
#Post#: 49765--------------------------------------------------
Re: NCP Parking PCNs – No Payment – Chobham Academy Stratford
DIR By: correcthaunt
Date: December 14, 2024, 7:28 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Another weekend, another letter. I swear they time them so
people fester over the weekend.
Anyway, these two are pretty much identical offering a "payment
plan".
These were also sent to a temporary location in London, and not
where the car is registered in Bristol.
Here are the letters:
HTML https://i.postimg.cc/dDtQDjxS/Moorside-Legal-AC-1-AC2-payment-plan.png
HTML https://postimg.cc/dDtQDjxS
Any action or we wait for county court claims?
#Post#: 49767--------------------------------------------------
Re: NCP Parking PCNs – No Payment – Chobham Academy Stratford
DIR By: b789
Date: December 14, 2024, 7:38 am
---------------------------------------------------------
What do you mean by this?
--- Quote from: correcthaunt link ---
>
> Not sure if this is because I submitted my AoS or their
standard practice.
>
> These were also sent to a temporary location in London, and
not where the car is registered.
--- End Quote ---
What Acknowledgement of Service (AoS)? An AoS is an official
response to an actual N1SDT Claim Form being issued. You have
not yet received a Claim.
Also, why exactly do you mean "...they were sent to a temporary
location in London..."? Was the LoC sent to the same address
that the vehicle is registered at and you are the Registered
Keeper? Are you suggesting that they possibly hold two separate
addresses for you?
The response to an LoC must make it absolutely clear to them
that there is only one address for service of documents. If they
hold more than one possible address, then the is a surefire way
of getting a CCJ by default.
So, we do not need to know about any rubbish they send you about
collecting the alleged debt or repayment schemes. All we need to
know about is an actual LoC or an N1SDST Claim Form received
through the CNBC.
You have raised some questions by your previous post. Please
answer the questions raised so that we can clarify what exactly
you meant.
#Post#: 49770--------------------------------------------------
Re: NCP Parking PCNs – No Payment – Chobham Academy Stratford
DIR By: correcthaunt
Date: December 14, 2024, 7:59 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote ---
> What Acknowledgement of Service (AoS)? An AoS is an official
response to an actual N1SDT Claim Form being issued. You have
not yet received a Claim.
--- End Quote ---
Correct I haven’t received one. Apologies @b789, I made a
mistake and got confused here by something else. There is no
letters from tribunal informing me that they made a claim in
this case (yet). I have re-edited the previous incorrect post
to clarify this.
--- Quote ---
> Also, why exactly do you mean "...they were sent to a
temporary location in London..."? Was the LoC sent to the same
address that the vehicle is registered at and you are the
Registered Keeper? Are you suggesting that they possibly hold
two separate addresses for you?
--- End Quote ---
I am the Registered Keeper and the car is registered to a
Bristol address. I share my time between Bristol and London
pretty much 50/50. The letters from NCP that you can see in the
first post were issued to Bristol. The Moorside lawyers have
only been sending letters (including those posted today) to the
London address and never once had they sent anything to Bristol.
Not sure what you mean by “then the is a surefire way of getting
a CCJ by default.” but as per above the registered keeper is
getting correspondence to the permanent address where the car is
registered in Bristol from NCP and to temporary residence in
London from Moorside. I am unsure on how they got the other
address, must have been through a credit check or something like
that. Is the fact that they have 2 addresses mean I will get a
CCJ or it makes it easier to strike them off?
I've just looked through the paperwork again and there is no
Letter of Claim from them.
#Post#: 49784--------------------------------------------------
Re: NCP Parking PCNs – No Payment – Chobham Academy Stratford
DIR By: b789
Date: December 14, 2024, 9:11 am
---------------------------------------------------------
No. It means that if crucial correspondence that requires a
timely response are not received, at least within the required
timeframe, you could end up receiving a claim that you are not
aware of and if not responded to by the required deadlines, the
claimant can request a CCJ by default.
You need to make it absolutely clear to Moorside Legal, which
address they must use for service of documents. It doesn't
matter which one you choose as long as it is one where you can
receive timely notification.
If Moorside Legal are using an address that you do not wish to
use as an address for service of legal documents, you must
immediately send a Data Rectification Notice to the DPO of
Moorside Legal and instruct them to update their records with
your address for service and for them to erase any other address
they hold for you.
The highlighted words are there for a reason and you must use
them in your notice. The contact details for the DPO will be in
their privacy policy statement on their website.
*****************************************************
Page 1 of 3
DIR Next Page