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#Post#: 48938--------------------------------------------------
Parkingeye - No Valid Parking Ticket - Falls of Dochart Inn
DIR By: lk
Date: December 8, 2024, 5:26 pm
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Hi all,
Four days ago I received a parking charge notice from
Parkingeye, for a parking violation committed on 07.11.2024. I
am from Germany, and I was on vacation in Scotland during that
week. I had a car hired from Enterprise. Parkingeye are asking
for 100 pounds for 11 minutes parking. On the notice it says
that there is a maximum of 0 hours and 0 minutes free stay time
at this car park.
First question: Is this even legal? It seems extremely
impractical, e.g. if people drive in only to see that the
parking space is fully occupied.
Let's assume the driver stops at this car park to check the
reviews of the pub on Google Maps, then decides against going in
and leaves the car park 11 mins later. The driver steps out of
the car for a short amount of time to take a picture. The driver
sees that there is a sign that says patron parking only, but
cannot remember if there are any more prominent signs that
inform the driver where and how to pay. The driver does not
consider that a payment might be necessary, because they are a
potential patron, but decide against going into the pub after a
period of consideration.
On the notice it says that drivers must register their car
inside the pub via a terminal. Reviews on Google Maps also seem
to suggest that the only way to avoid a parking charge is by
going inside the pub and registering the car.
Second question: Is this legal? If the pub is closed there seems
to be no way to avoid the charge.
I received this notice on 4.12. via air mail to Germany. The
parking charge is discounted to 60 pounds if payed within 14
days of the date issued. The notice was issued on 11.11. Even if
I was willing to pay the charge, just to avoid any further
hassle, I don't want to pay 40 pounds on top because the mail
was late.
Here is a link to the document:
HTML https://imgur.com/a/A3iVn6S
Any help would be apprecciated, thank you!
#Post#: 48939--------------------------------------------------
Re: Parkingeye - No Valid Parking Ticket - Falls of Dochart Inn
DIR By: DWMB2
Date: December 8, 2024, 5:51 pm
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Wilkommen! Ich habe einmal in Deutschland gewohnt. Schöne
Errinerungen.
I'm sure a Parking Charge Notice wasn't the souvenir you had in
mind from your visit to Scotland.
Whilst they say the allowed period is 0 minutes, they will allow
a certain grace period, which must be a minimum of 5 minutes.
Practically, ParkingEye have no way to make you pay. They cannot
sue you in the Scottish courts, because you are resident abroad,
and they cannot sue you in the German courts for a British debt
(as far as I'm aware - and even if they could, the cost and
effort would be prohibitive).
On that basis, you could simply ignore them.
However, I'm mindful that as this involves a rental company,
ParkingEye might revert to chasing the hire company, who might
then pay the charge and try to recover it from you - do
Enterprise have your credit/debit card details?
#Post#: 48969--------------------------------------------------
Re: Parkingeye - No Valid Parking Ticket - Falls of Dochart Inn
DIR By: Dave65
Date: December 9, 2024, 4:26 am
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If Enterprise has sent the details to Parkingeye would this
absolve them from a come back claim against them?
#Post#: 48977--------------------------------------------------
Re: Parkingeye - No Valid Parking Ticket - Falls of Dochart Inn
DIR By: DWMB2
Date: December 9, 2024, 4:41 am
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There's no keeper liability in Scotland (yet) anyway, but hire
companies are prone to doing silly things when in receipt of
parking charges.
#Post#: 48997--------------------------------------------------
Re: Parkingeye - No Valid Parking Ticket - Falls of Dochart Inn
DIR By: b789
Date: December 9, 2024, 7:05 am
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Is the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) you received addressed to you
as the Hirer of the vehicle or is it simply a copy of the Notice
to Keeper (NtK) that was sent to the Hire company?
This will determine whether the Hire company has followed the
correct procedure to transfer liability away from themselves to
you, the Hirer. If they have correctly followed the procedure to
transfer liability from themselves as the Registered Keeper (RK)
to you, the Hirer, then ParkingEye cannot later go back and try
and recover anything from the RK.
So, if the PCN you have received is in your name, then it is a
Notice to Hirer (NtH) and only the driver can be liable. Neither
the Hire company nor ParkingEye know who the driver is. In
Scotland, there is no Keeper/Hirer liability anyway.
If all you have received is a copy of the Notice to Keeper (NtK)
received by the Hire company, then they may not have correctly
transferred liability away from themselves and could be chased
by ParkingEye which in turn, means they could try and chase you,
although unlikely as you are not a UK resident, unless you have
given them authorisation to charge your credit card.
There is no way ParkingEye can chase you in Germany. They have
no jurisdiction. Your only concern is whether the Hire company
have transferred liability as required under PoFA. If they have,
you can simply ignore the PCN.
So, is the PCN in your name or the Hire company's name?
Edit... on reading the PCN, it would appear to be an NtH in the
Hirers name because the back of it does not contain the usual
PoFA warning. In which case, simply ignore the letter and carry
on with your life.
#Post#: 49000--------------------------------------------------
Re: Parkingeye - No Valid Parking Ticket - Falls of Dochart Inn
DIR By: DWMB2
Date: December 9, 2024, 7:10 am
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It wouldn't have had the PoFA wording on at any rate having been
issued in Scotland.
#Post#: 49247--------------------------------------------------
Re: Parkingeye - No Valid Parking Ticket - Falls of Dochart Inn
DIR By: lk
Date: December 10, 2024, 2:55 pm
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Hey, thanks for the reply! The notice is adressed to me
personally, so I assume Enterprise gave my name and adress to
Parkingeye. I have read that there is no keeper liability in
Scotland, but was unsure whether this applies to hired cars as
well. So should I appeal on the basis that they cannot prove who
was driving? I would prefer if I could resolve this once and for
all. I have read of a similar case on another website where
Parkingeye hired a German debt collection agency to pressure the
person to pay, and I could do without that.
#Post#: 49287--------------------------------------------------
Re: Parkingeye - No Valid Parking Ticket - Falls of Dochart Inn
DIR By: b789
Date: December 11, 2024, 3:23 am
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Disregard the German case. Debt collectors in the UK cannot do
anything except scare the low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree
into paying. They cannot do anything else, which is why you are
advised to ignore the useless debt collectors.
Even if PE had hired a German debt collector, how on earth do
you imagine they could chase an English debt in the German
courts? There is no jurisdiction. If they did send a German debt
collector after someone, they are relying on the gullibility,
ignorance and stupidity of the recipient to pay it.
With regards to your case, there is no Keeper/Hirer liability in
Scotland. Even if this was in England, they still cannot sue the
Hirer because they will not have fully complied with PoFA
paragraphs 13 and 14.
So, you appeal on the basis that you are the Hirer. You are
under no legal obligation to reveal the drivers identity. There
is no Hirer liability in Scotland. End of.
Simply appeal with the following:
--- Quote ---
> I am the Hirer of the vehicle and I dispute your 'parking
charge'. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I
will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to your
client landowner.
>
> As you will be fully aware, there is no Keeper/Hirer liability
in Scotland. Even if there was, your Notice to Hirer (NtH) does
not fully comply with ALL the requirements of paragraphs 13 and
14 of PoFA 2012. So, you are unable to hold the Hirer of the
vehicle liable for the charge.
>
> As there is no legal obligation for the Hirer to identify the
driver to an unregulated private parking company, there will be
no admission as to who was driving and no inference or
assumptions can be drawn. ParkingEye has relied on contract law
allegations of breach against the driver only.
>
> The Hirer cannot be presumed or inferred to have been the
driver, nor pursued under some twisted interpretation of the law
of agency. Your NtH can only hold the driver liable. ParkingEye
have no hope at POPLA, so you are urged to save us both a
complete waste of time and cancel the PCN.
--- End Quote ---
#Post#: 49288--------------------------------------------------
Re: Parkingeye - No Valid Parking Ticket - Falls of Dochart Inn
DIR By: DWMB2
Date: December 11, 2024, 3:30 am
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I would amend the template slightly as follows
--- Quote ---
> I am the Hirer of the vehicle and I dispute your 'parking
charge'. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I
will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to your
client landowner.
>
> As you will be fully aware, there is no Keeper/Hirer liability
in Scotland. Even if there was, your Notice to Hirer (NtH) does
not fully comply with ALL the requirements of paragraphs 13 and
14 of PoFA 2012. So, you are unable to hold the Hirer of the
vehicle liable for the charge.
>
> As there is no legal obligation for the Hirer to identify the
driver to an unregulated private parking company, there will be
no admission as to who was driving and no inference or
assumptions can be drawn. ParkingEye has relied on contract law
allegations of breach against the driver only.
>
> The Hirer cannot be presumed or inferred to have been the
driver, nor pursued under some twisted interpretation of the law
of agency. Your NtH can only hold the driver liable. ParkingEye
have no hope at POPLA, so You are urged to save us both a
complete waste of time and cancel the PCN.
--- End Quote ---
This is because only the driver can appeal to POPLA in Scotland.
#Post#: 49411--------------------------------------------------
Re: Parkingeye - No Valid Parking Ticket - Falls of Dochart Inn
DIR By: lk
Date: December 11, 2024, 2:11 pm
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Thanks a lot for your advice. Vielen Dank! I have appealed with
the template you provided.Let's see what happens.
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