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#Post#: 4905--------------------------------------------------
Re: Totting up or potential ban?
DIR By: unknowndriver
Date: September 11, 2023, 2:13 pm
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I have come home today to find another COFP for driving without
due care and attention and can be dealt with 3 points.
So i have been dealt with the two charges the officer stated
that he would be writing me up for. I was hoping for just the
one charge to be honest.
Is there any reason why i could have received these two charges
separately and almost two weeks apart?
Can i actually have any defence with this? as these two separate
3 point charges total up to 6 and with my current 3 points i
will have 9 altogether and this will put me on judge every time
i am driving.
Could i ask them to maybe join the charges together (if that has
ever happened) and maybe get lower points combined together?
How likely will it be if i wanted to challenge this and could
lose and end up with in a worse situation?
Any help is appreciated, thanks
#Post#: 4908--------------------------------------------------
Re: Totting up or potential ban?
DIR By: NewJudge
Date: September 11, 2023, 3:06 pm
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Do the two relate to the same incident?
#Post#: 4917--------------------------------------------------
Re: Totting up or potential ban?
DIR By: unknowndriver
Date: September 11, 2023, 3:43 pm
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--- Quote from: NewJudge link ---
>
> Do the two relate to the same incident?
>
--- End Quote ---
Yes, they relate to the same incident mentioned in the pdf i
uploaded in the reply before today
I also have 3 points for driving without due care and attention,
is it possible to get charged again for something i already have
points for?
#Post#: 4919--------------------------------------------------
Re: Totting up or potential ban?
DIR By: Southpaw82
Date: September 11, 2023, 4:10 pm
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--- Quote from: unknowndriver link ---
>
> I also have 3 points for driving without due care and
attention, is it possible to get charged again for something i
already have points for?
>
--- End Quote ---
From your opening post, that was from a different incident in
2021, so yes, of course you can get charged for the same offence
committed on a different occasion. Be a bit weird otherwise.
#Post#: 4921--------------------------------------------------
Re: Totting up or potential ban?
DIR By: unknowndriver
Date: September 11, 2023, 4:15 pm
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--- Quote from: Southpaw82 link ---
>
> [quote author=unknowndriver link=topic=422.msg4917#msg4917
date=1694465007]
> I also have 3 points for driving without due care and
attention, is it possible to get charged again for something i
already have points for?
>
--- End Quote ---
From your opening post, that was from a different incident in
2021, so yes, of course you can get charged for the same offence
committed on a different occasion. Be a bit weird otherwise.
[/quote]
Yes that was a different incident, i was just unsure if you
could "stack" the same charges.
Do you think i could have any defence for the current charges?
#Post#: 4968--------------------------------------------------
Re: Totting up or potential ban?
DIR By: tonys
Date: September 12, 2023, 1:27 am
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So let's forget about the offence in 2021 except in that it's
left you with three points.
For the incident on 17th August 2023, you received a COFP for
driving "without reasonable consideration to other users".
Have you now received a second COFP for the same date, time and
place but alleging driving "without due care and attention" also
citing Section 3 RTA 1988?
Is that correct? If so then that sounds like a duplication, as
the two are different elements of the same offence.
#Post#: 4997--------------------------------------------------
Re: Totting up or potential ban?
DIR By: The Rookie
Date: September 12, 2023, 6:07 am
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As posted on 'the other site'.
So to be clear, you have 2 COFP arising from the same incident?
This simply shouldn't happen, for a start they are both the same
offence contrary to S3 RTA 1988 (
HTML https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/section/3
) so
effectively they are trying to punish you twice for one 'crime',
secondly if two offences are committed at the same time they
shouldn't issue a COFP at all (to their guidance) and thirdly if
they were different offences (they aren't) committed at the same
time then in court you only get one set of points (for the worst
offence) so would have to be foolish to accept a COFP.
I see three options
1/ Write back to the Police enclosing copies of both and
politely asking what the F they are playing at, they may even
drop both cases out of 'embarrassment' (for the want of a better
single word).
2/ Accept one, that then absolves you of prosecution for the
other and if they did take it to court you could have a little
fun showing up their incompetence.
3/ Accept neither (noting you don't have to actively decline,
you can ignore them as it says) and wait to be taken to court,
you'll only get one lot of points (but may be more than 3) if
you lose, and it will cost quite a bit more (again, only if you
lose). Chance of a successful defence is hard to quantify.
#Post#: 5029--------------------------------------------------
Re: Totting up or potential ban?
DIR By: unknowndriver
Date: September 12, 2023, 5:07 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: tonys link ---
>
> So let's forget about the offence in 2021 except in that it's
left you with three points.
>
> For the incident on 17th August 2023, you received a COFP for
driving "without reasonable consideration to other users".
>
> Have you now received a second COFP for the same date, time
and place but alleging driving "without due care and attention"
also citing Section 3 RTA 1988?
>
> Is that correct? If so then that sounds like a duplication, as
the two are different elements of the same offence.
>
--- End Quote ---
Yes i have received a second COFP for the same date, time and
place but charge is driving without sue care and attention with
it citing section 3 RTA 1988.
Please find the letters in this link
HTML https://imgur.com/a/hTkZ3sI
Can see the dates and description of charge is different
#Post#: 5030--------------------------------------------------
Re: Totting up or potential ban?
DIR By: unknowndriver
Date: September 12, 2023, 5:11 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: The Rookie link ---
>
> As posted on 'the other site'.
>
> So to be clear, you have 2 COFP arising from the same
incident?
>
> This simply shouldn't happen, for a start they are both the
same offence contrary to S3 RTA 1988 (
HTML https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/section/3
) so
effectively they are trying to punish you twice for one 'crime',
secondly if two offences are committed at the same time they
shouldn't issue a COFP at all (to their guidance) and thirdly if
they were different offences (they aren't) committed at the same
time then in court you only get one set of points (for the worst
offence) so would have to be foolish to accept a COFP.
>
> I see three options
> 1/ Write back to the Police enclosing copies of both and
politely asking what the F they are playing at, they may even
drop both cases out of 'embarrassment' (for the want of a better
single word).
> 2/ Accept one, that then absolves you of prosecution for the
other and if they did take it to court you could have a little
fun showing up their incompetence.
> 3/ Accept neither (noting you don't have to actively decline,
you can ignore them as it says) and wait to be taken to court,
you'll only get one lot of points (but may be more than 3) if
you lose, and it will cost quite a bit more (again, only if you
lose). Chance of a successful defence is hard to quantify.
>
--- End Quote ---
I have responded to you on the other site
Would writing work or a phonecall work? If the writing is
better, how am i to word this?
Cold they have dropped the first charge? but how could that work
without being informed
So if i accept the first one, driving without consideration for
others, i ignore the charge of driving without due care?
In any of those scenarios, which has as higher chance of
success? or are they all equal to each other?
#Post#: 5041--------------------------------------------------
Re: Totting up or potential ban?
DIR By: guest46
Date: September 13, 2023, 2:14 am
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WRITE!! This is closing in on court so written records matter!
Never assume what is said in a phone call (which could be only
with as call handler) has any real basis.
The options above aren't about the chances of success, they're
about your attitude to risk.
1. Is fairly benign and there's no real risk in asking for
clarity (provided you act quickly, politely etc)
2. Is a 'confession' of guilt for 1/2 the charges soa 50/50
option
3. Is the fight it to the wire option with costs etc hanging
over you if you lose
Me? I'd get a letter away NOW, copy kept with proof of posting
(option 1.) as there's no real downside if the timing works.
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