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#Post#: 48830--------------------------------------------------
CODE 01 Medway Clover Street Chatham Delivering food for the
Homeless
DIR By: El-Roi
Date: December 8, 2024, 3:24 am
---------------------------------------------------------
CODE 01 Medway Delivering food for the Homeless to Emmaus Church
Centre. Clover Street Chatham
I am seeking advice on whether there are any valid grounds for a
successful appeal or challenge for the following PCN:
PCN Details:
•
•
•
•
•
prescribed hours
•
I was driving my sister’s car and had parked briefly in front of
Emmaus Church Centre on Clover Street to drop off food,
including hot meals, for the homeless. I arrived around 16:16
and stayed for approximately 5 minutes. During this time, a PCN
was issued. The PCN was blown off the windscreen by strong winds
from Storm Bert, before I had the chance to remove it from the
windscreen. I drove around the block and found the CEO sitting
down (hiding) a dark corner at the back of a car park up an
alley on the next street hiding and on his phone. Apparently
waiting to come out again to strike and issue more PCN. It is
likely he must have seen me parking and going into the centre
with the food stuff.
I contacted the council for details and a copy of the PCN, but
the parking staff told me that they do not issue duplicate PCNs
or provide a written copy. After some insistence, they provided
me with the PCN information above but stated that they only
provide the PCN number and the date it was issued as that was
all I needed to view the PCN on their website. I reminded her
that the website does not have a copy of the PCN and all the
information needed to successfully challenge the PCN. The
website only shows pictures evidences taken by the CEO issuing
the PCN.
Questions:
1.
2.
of the PCN ? Should the council parking department not have
provided me the information in writing as requested especially
that they knew there was a storm? Is this a standard practice
and it is acceptable? Is there anything I can do about this ?
I would appreciate any guidance or advice from the experts in
appealing this PCN.
Thank you all in advance for your time and assistance.
See link below with all the pictures on the Medway Website
HTML https://ibb.co/cQY2m3S
#Post#: 48833--------------------------------------------------
Re: CODE 01 Medway Clover Street Chatham Delivering food for the
Homeless
DIR By: John U.K.
Date: December 8, 2024, 4:18 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Here, I presume?
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/QrZyTxpH91WJLoXk6
(Small world - I lived on Clover Street half a century ago -
looks very different now.)
Does Medway (I assume was the issuing authority) have a
status/history page for a PCN?
Issue date of 24th. means discount period now expired.
At the moment, it looks as if you need to draft a challenge
based on mitigation (charitable work, bulky items, atrocious
weather) but wait for the experts to chip in.
Medway (if they do not accept your challenge) may well re-offer
the discount.
Post your draft here for comment before sending in, but do not
miss deadline.
N.B. at the next stage (NtO) your sister shoiuld receive this if
hers is the name on the V5C, and she, not you, is the person to
make reps againmst the NtO.
#Post#: 48844--------------------------------------------------
Re: CODE 01 Medway Clover Street Chatham Delivering food for the
Homeless
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: December 8, 2024, 5:11 am
---------------------------------------------------------
It's a restricted parking zone with 24/7 no waiting but the no
loading time doesn't apply o Sunday when you got the PCN, hence
the code 01 to which the loading exemption applies.
Problem is you say you 'stayed for approx 5 mins' - what does
this mean? To claim the exemption you need to have taken stuff
in and returned to car taking no more time.
#Post#: 48855--------------------------------------------------
Re: CODE 01 Medway Clover Street Chatham Delivering food for the
Homeless
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: December 8, 2024, 6:25 am
---------------------------------------------------------
1. Do I have any grounds to challenge the PCN successfully?
At this stage yes, if you were delivering goods. You need to
tell us more about this process (not who the food was for but
the process e.g. were you expected, did you make one or more
than one trip, were you on your own, how was what you delivered
received/accounted for, what paperwork was involved etc?);
2. Can the Council refuse to provide me with a copy / duplicate
of the PCN ?
At this stage, yes. It was served but it blew away or whatever.
It happens. The registered keeper would see an exact copy if the
matter progressed to adjudication.
Should the council parking department not have provided me the
information in writing as requested especially that they knew
there was a storm?
No.
Is this a standard practice and it is acceptable? Is there
anything I can do about this ?
IMO, yes, yes and no.
I suggest you concentrate on substantive issues of the
contravention.
#Post#: 48916--------------------------------------------------
Re: CODE 01 Medway Clover Street Chatham Delivering food for the
Homeless
DIR By: El-Roi
Date: December 8, 2024, 1:38 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: H C Andersen link ---
>
> At this stage yes, if you were delivering goods. You need to
tell us more about this process (not who the food was for but
the process e.g. were you expected, did you make one or more
than one trip, were you on your own, how was what you delivered
received/accounted for, what paperwork was involved etc?);
>
>
> It was my first time dropping off food. I was on my own. I did
two trips from my car to the centre. There was a bit of delay
when I went in initially as they were just about to start
sharing and the centre was already full with homeless people.
They also transferred the hot food to their own container which
took some time. They were expecting me but the time wasn’t
confirmed. We had a window to drop off the food during which
they can make the re-distribution We were making a personal
voluntary contribution. We bought discounted and yellow sticker
items from the supermarket ( some receipts available) friends
and family donated items and the rest was home-made food. There
was no paperwork / invoice as it was a personal /family gift
donation because of the good work The centre was are doing.
Majority of the homeless people that hang around the high street
go there to get hot food. As a family we regularly buy
discounted / yellow sticker items to a give to Homeless
individuals including AMAT Residents in Chatham, guys hanging
around in the town centre or supermarket entrances begging,
struggling parents, single parents, elderly or struggling
neighbours who have lost their Job loss or sick etc. It’s just
helping the community. I have old text message offering food to
struggling people and neighbours.
>
> 2. Can the Council refuse to provide me with a copy /
duplicate of the PCN ?
> At this stage, yes. It was served but it blew away or
whatever. It happens. The registered keeper would see an exact
copy if the matter progressed to adjudication.
>
> Should the council parking department not have provided me the
information in writing as requested especially that they knew
there was a storm?
>
> No.
>
> Okay thanks Noted.
>
>
>
> Is this a standard practice and it is acceptable? Is there
anything I can do about this ?
>
> IMO, yes, yes and no.
>
> Thanks
>
>
> I suggest you concentrate on substantive issues of the
contravention.
>
--- End Quote ---
Sure, my focus is one the contravention. I was asking this to
see if they can extend the discounted period being that I didn't
have the details of the PCN on hand. I didn’t have adequate time
can get the relevant help and advice on how to challenge the PCN
successfully or if I should just cut my losses and pay the
discounted amount.
#Post#: 48923--------------------------------------------------
Re: CODE 01 Medway Clover Street Chatham Delivering food for the
Homeless
DIR By: El-Roi
Date: December 8, 2024, 3:21 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: stamfordman link ---
>
> It's a restricted parking zone with 24/7 no waiting but the no
loading time doesn't apply on Sunday when you got the PCN, hence
the code 01 to which the loading exemption applies.
--- End Quote ---
Thanks. Just to be clear, is loading only allowed on Sundays but
not on other days? Could you please show me the relevant signage
for future reference? Sorry if I sound confused—could you please
explain/simplify your comment above? I don't want to pretend
that I understand all of it and miss out on a crucial point.
Many thanks.
--- Quote from: stamfordman link ---
>
> Problem is you say you 'stayed for approx 5 mins' - what does
this mean? To claim the exemption you need to have taken stuff
in and returned to car taking no more time.
>
--- End Quote ---
"
As per my earlier reply , there were delays when I arrived to
hand over the food. Additionally, they asked me to wait while
they transferred my food to their own container. Some of the
items were bulky and heavy, which is why I was there longer than
expected. I had to make two trips between my car and the centre.
I literally missed him issuing the ticket, which is why I saw
him sitting down on the next road. I wouldn’t risk leaving my
boot open in Chatham Town Centre, knowing it is a high-risk,
high-crime area. While I was waiting for them to transfer the
food to their container, I stepped out to check my car and
that's when I saw the PCN.
#Post#: 48924--------------------------------------------------
Re: CODE 01 Medway Clover Street Chatham Delivering food for the
Homeless
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: December 8, 2024, 3:50 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
The signage is clear - no loading in the zone 10am to 5pm
Mon-Sat, so avoid those times if taking food there. You were
there before 5pm but it was Sunday.
Your account of unloading is good and it would be a hard-hearted
council that pursued you for this good cause.
HTML https://i.imgur.com/4sUAFZs.png
#Post#: 48933--------------------------------------------------
Re: CODE 01 Medway Clover Street Chatham Delivering food for the
Homeless
DIR By: El-Roi
Date: December 8, 2024, 5:00 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: John U.K. link ---
>
> Here, I presume?
>
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/QrZyTxpH91WJLoXk6
--- End Quote ---
Yes, I was parked on the spot the Traffic Warden is standing in
the picture. by the time I got there the place was parked full
of cars on both side of the road. Thanks for posting this. I was
so upset that I didn't check the template and it was very windy
and getting dark. Looking at the time plate I now understand
what Stamfordman was saying that the loading does not apply on
Sunday. Loading is prohibited Monday to Saturday 10:00 am to
5:oo pm. Not sure if the CC01 applies to loading. This is the
bit I am confused about and need the guidance of the experts to
if I can challenge the CC.
--- Quote from: John U.K. link ---
>
> (Small world - I lived on Clover Street half a century ago -
looks very different now.)
--- End Quote ---
Indeed, it is a small world. I bet it doesn't look the same
after half a century. Even the High Street has changed. Are you
still in Kent. I guess you are no longer in Medway.
--- Quote from: John U.K. link ---
>
> Medway (I assume was the issuing authority) have a
status/history page for a PCN?
> Issue date of 24th. means discount period now expired.
--- End Quote ---
Medway doesn't have a history page but you can look up the PCN
on their website and see the amount due.
I checked this morning after posting and it was £35.
I have just checked again but got this message “We're
experiencing some technical difficulties with the website search
function. Our website search function is temporarily
unavailable. We apologise for any inconvenience this may cause.”
From experience, Medway is a bit lenient and starts counting
after the day the PCN was issued and tend to leave it at the
discounted amount for a while.
--- Quote from: John U.K. link ---
>
> At the moment, it looks as if you need to draft a challenge
based on mitigation (charitable work, bulky items, atrocious
weather) but wait for the experts to chip in.
--- End Quote ---
Medway (if they do not accept your challenge) may well re-offer
the discount.
Post your draft here for comment before sending in, but do not
miss deadline.[/quote]
I am waiting to get some advice and guidance from the experts as
what grounds to appeal and the wording in terms of what to
include and what to leave out; I will then draft an appeal.
According to the signage on the Google map you posted Loading
is allowed on Sunday. I will have to prove that I was loading
and substantiate that.
Ideally I would have loved to send it today but not sure if I
have all the required points and guidance to do the draft.
Medway will offer the discount if the appeal is made within the
discounted period or whilst the PCN is showing at the discounted
amount on their website.
--- Quote from: John U.K. link ---
>
> N.B. at the next stage ) your sister should receive this if
hers is the name on the V5C, and she, not you, is the person to
make reps against the NtO.
>
--- End Quote ---
Yeah. Ideally I do not want to leave it to get to that stage
#Post#: 48937--------------------------------------------------
Re: CODE 01 Medway Clover Street Chatham Delivering food for the
Homeless
DIR By: El-Roi
Date: December 8, 2024, 5:20 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: stamfordman link ---
>
> The signage is clear - no loading in the zone 10am to 5pm
Mon-Sat, so avoid those times if taking food there. You were
there before 5pm but it was Sunday.
>
> Your account of unloading is good and it would be a
hard-hearted council that pursued you for this good cause.
>
>
HTML https://i.imgur.com/4sUAFZs.png
>
--- End Quote ---
Thanks. I didn't see the information on the sign in the picture
the CEO Uploaded. Looking at the Googlemap John posted I saw the
signage clear and then understood your comments. Loading is
allowed all throughout Sunday. I believe it is because of the
Church services on Sunday that's why loading is exempted. To be
honest I was very upset when I saw the PCN and didn't bother to
hang around to check any signage. Also it was very windy and
drizzling and was dark.
Please on what ground(s) should I appeal? Also the code 01 used
is that the correct code for loading. this is the bit I need
some expert help in. Please can you suggest some wording or
structure for the appeal so I can draft it and post it up to be
reviewed and corrected. What evidence should I include?
Many thanks. Appreciated
#Post#: 49018--------------------------------------------------
Re: CODE 01 Medway Clover Street Chatham Delivering food for the
Homeless
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: December 9, 2024, 8:37 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Sorry I confused you with the loading sign - it's nothing to do
with Sundays but wanted to make you aware that there are loading
restrictions at other times.
I would send the below. It would help if you had something
official to enclose such as an email or thank you from the
centre or such like. If this is a regular activity of yours you
should also say so.
------------------------------
I am challenging the PCN on the grounds that I was engaged in
the exempt activity of unloading.
I was taking a number of bulky food items for homeless people to
the Emmaus Church Centre and needed to park by the entrance to
do so. Some of the food was hot food.
I needed to go to the centre and back to the car twice to unload
all the food.
I took only as long as necessary to carry out this good cause
and trust you'll agree the exemption applies and look forward to
the early cancellation of this PCN.
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