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#Post#: 48724--------------------------------------------------
Waltham Forest - 31 Entering and stopping in a box junction when
prohibited
DIR By: john_s_wf
Date: December 7, 2024, 4:27 am
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Hi,
Recently received this PCN - not me driving though ;)
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8ZYP-o2W8I
I think (& driver thinks) there was room to clear the junction
but they stopped to allow pedestrians to cross
Is this enough to appeal - there was space in front, in the case
this might not have been sufficient space the driver could still
have pulled to the right and cleared the junction that way?
In addition the paint of the box seems fairly worn, might this
be helpful?
Thanks.
#Post#: 48731--------------------------------------------------
Re: Waltham Forest - 31 Entering and stopping in a box junction
when prohibited
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: December 7, 2024, 5:18 am
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No contravention. There is only a contravention if you had to
stop in the box due to stationary vehicles
#Post#: 48832--------------------------------------------------
Re: Waltham Forest - 31 Entering and stopping in a box junction
when prohibited
DIR By: Princeperch
Date: December 8, 2024, 3:59 am
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HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-i5PiVGSA50MQJPVyOLnf0NhhgkVN9nx/edit
Your case is similar to mine in that you stopped short and could
have cleared the box but didn't.youll need to measure your car
and the gap that was there (there is an app to do that).then
informal reps which will be refused and then onto the tribunal
where you risk the whole amount.
If you ask nicely ivan might pop along to give his view. If he
says it's a runner, go with it
Waltham forest are sub human detritus however so you will have
to risk paying the whole lot.
#Post#: 48925--------------------------------------------------
Re: Waltham Forest - 31 Entering and stopping in a box junction
when prohibited
DIR By: MrChips
Date: December 8, 2024, 3:52 pm
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100% agree, no contravention here. The car stops for pedestrians
and once they have crossed there's plenty of room to clear the
box completely.
#Post#: 49137--------------------------------------------------
Re: Waltham Forest - 31 Entering and stopping in a box junction
when prohibited
DIR By: john_s_wf
Date: December 9, 2024, 5:35 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Thanks everyone.
It's annoying that because of the angle, fact that the camera
moves and the low quality video it's hard to see the positions
well. While I'm satisfied there's room there's always other
peoples interpretations. I've uploaded a google maps view of the
location.
I assume that the location to be concerned about is where
exactly the car in front stops for the first time?
Is it worth mentioning the worn markings? I'll have to go down
to see if they actually are worn or whether it's the camera
quality.
Something like this: -
Dear Sirs
Ref: PCN: FR64089158
I make the following representations as to why the offence did
not occur:
1. The hatched box markings are excessively worn, particularly
on the exit.
2. The car did not stop in the box junction "due to the presence
of stationary vehicles" as required for the offence, but to
allow pedestrians to cross. Indeed, at the time that the car in
front stops there is space for a car directly behind it and to
the right (as occupied by the grey van at approximately the 24
second mark.)
Is there anything else worth mentioning or modifying?
[attachimg=1]
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 49144--------------------------------------------------
Re: Waltham Forest - 31 Entering and stopping in a box junction
when prohibited
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: December 9, 2024, 6:22 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Your representations text should not mention the worn markings,
and concentrate solely on the circumstances of stopping (for
pedestrians), because they will reject no matter what you say.
This is to force you to pay-up at the discounted rate, rather
than wait for the next enforcement document when the discount
option is lost. The council know that by refusing all
representations, most people, like over 95%, just cough up the
discount. It's a nice little earner for them.
The plain fact is the contravention is not made out. The
stopping must be due to stationary vehicles blocking your exit
from the box, nothing else. If they refuse you and you take them
to London Tribunals, you would have a strong case for costs when
you win.
#Post#: 49172--------------------------------------------------
Re: Waltham Forest - 31 Entering and stopping in a box junction
when prohibited
DIR By: Princeperch
Date: December 10, 2024, 4:40 am
---------------------------------------------------------
John your car is 4.6m long
HTML https://www.automobiledimension.com/model/citroen/grand-c4-spacetourer
The gap immediately in front of your car was more than that. You
should include this in your representations.
At anyone's best guess you had over double the length of your
car if you measure to where the back of the nearest car was
(roughly the curb near the island on the right).
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 49302--------------------------------------------------
Re: Waltham Forest - 31 Entering and stopping in a box junction
when prohibited
DIR By: john_s_wf
Date: December 11, 2024, 4:56 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Thanks,
I just noticed when going to put in my representation that I am
restricted to only one choice. That seems to be raised as an
issue here -
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/lb-redbridge-53j-failing-to-comply-with-a-restriction-on-vehicles-entering-a-ped/15/<br
/>- so is that also worth noting?
[attachimg=1]
Thanks.
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 49305--------------------------------------------------
Re: Waltham Forest - 31 Entering and stopping in a box junction
when prohibited
DIR By: Princeperch
Date: December 11, 2024, 5:01 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Just email your representations in a normal email to them
wfpcn@nsl.co.uk
#Post#: 51959--------------------------------------------------
Re: Waltham Forest - 31 Entering and stopping in a box junction
when prohibited
DIR By: john_s_wf
Date: January 5, 2025, 5:23 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Hi, so I sent them this challenge: -
[attachimg=1]
I then received this rejection
[attachimg=2]
[attachimg=3]
[attachimg=4]
If anyone could help me with some pointers on the next steps
please?
Thanks.
[attachment deleted by admin]
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