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#Post#: 48784--------------------------------------------------
Re: Enfield PCN Code 27 - dropped kerb
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: December 7, 2024, 11:00 am
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--- Quote ---
> The dropped kerbs are probably there for council mowers.
--- End Quote ---
Or people on scooters
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/kibxexVk9iL7G1oy8
#Post#: 48792--------------------------------------------------
Re: Enfield PCN Code 27 - dropped kerb
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: December 7, 2024, 12:15 pm
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OP, I suggest you compose your thoughts and approach
differently.
There are 3 separate but dependent issues:
1. Was the car in contravention and could a PCN be issued;
2. Was the car removed lawfully, including in accordance with
the council's published policy?
3. Procedural matters at the pound.
1. Yes and yes IMO. No point dancing around this. You were
parked by a dropped footway which is a statutory prohibition if
placed for the purposes specified in the Act. As there's a
matching dropped footway immediately opposite IMO there's
nothing to stop an adjudicator finding as a fact that its
purpose is to assist pedestrians crossing the carriageway. That
you claim that it was masked by water won't save you because
it's not supported by the council's photos which you've posted.
2. Lawful removal? The OBCEO(onboard CEO cannot issue the PCN,
their role is to determine whether a vehicle to which a PCN has
been served may be removed/moved and oversee this removal in
line with the council's policy*). There must be a PCN affixed to
the car before removal can be considered.
3. Procedural matters at the pound. You were not given the PCN
and other docs until payment for the vehicle's release had been
made. Nothing untoward in this IMO.
*- council's policy. Have you seen this? The council is
empowered to remove vehicles but must determine and publish its
policy before doing so and officers with the 'enforcement
authority' hat must comply with this.
As you've blanked your VRM we cannot see the council's photos.
#Post#: 48800--------------------------------------------------
Re: Enfield PCN Code 27 - dropped kerb
DIR By: northwalian
Date: December 7, 2024, 3:07 pm
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VRM is EX64XXP looking at the pic, can be seen "through" the
blanking
#Post#: 48804--------------------------------------------------
Re: Enfield PCN Code 27 - dropped kerb
DIR By: Londoner001
Date: December 7, 2024, 4:13 pm
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Thanks guys for your responses. I have put in the attached
document all the photos shown on the council's appeal website in
a chronological order. There are only 6 photos on their website
and no other evidence or any other explanation had been provided
about the PCN.
I have also copied the documents given at the car pound, which
are: a PCN (both sides of it have been copied as you requested),
a payment receipt form filled in by the car pound staff, and the
appeal form given by them.
I have put my own photo showing the kerb under water where I
parked and the uneven surface of the kerb behind my parked car,
which had a lowered end too, bringing more confusion about where
the actual dropped kerb started and finished.
I looked for the council's rule book about their car towing
rules, but could not find it.
I hope these details in the attached document will be sufficient
for you. These are the only photos and documents that I have
been provided by the council.
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 48816--------------------------------------------------
Re: Enfield PCN Code 27 - dropped kerb
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: December 7, 2024, 5:41 pm
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You have the reasonable point about the earlier conditions when
you parked.
We don't have a vehicle removal policy by Enfield but it's
likely to be the same as others which is that code 27 is in the
highest category of priority for removal and also instant with
no waiting.
This predatory tow we usually see with Newham, which tours a
removal truck around looking for contraventions. You can argue
in this location it is disproportionate but the tribunal is
bound by the law not mitigation. But it's point to make.
I'd say the conditions at parking are your best bet but others
will check the documentation.
In any case you have reps and then an appeal with no further
cost.
HTML https://i.ibb.co/85VrDPj/image.png
#Post#: 48858--------------------------------------------------
Re: Enfield PCN Code 27 - dropped kerb
DIR By: mrmustard
Date: December 8, 2024, 6:29 am
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I agree that the dropped kerb isn't obvious when under water and
there isn't dimpled paving to alert you.
I would also claim that the PCN was not served to the vehicle,
as, having looked at the council's photos on line the plastic
wallet is as flat as a pancake, the envelope may simply be
empty, placed on the windscreen for effect. I have seen this
elsewhere.
In addition the representations form refers to the defunct 2007
Regulations which were replaced by the 2022 General Regulations.
That is probably enough to win at the tribunal, but not likely
to sway the council.
This case might best be managed by a seasoned expert like me,
who has beaten over 2,000 of 2,500 PCN which have been fought.
For free representation, email mrmustard@zoho.com
#Post#: 48873--------------------------------------------------
Re: Enfield PCN Code 27 - dropped kerb
DIR By: mickR
Date: December 8, 2024, 8:08 am
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take up mrmustards offer ;)
#Post#: 48902--------------------------------------------------
Re: Enfield PCN Code 27 - dropped kerb
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: December 8, 2024, 11:42 am
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the envelope may simply be empty, placed on the windscreen for
effect. I have seen this elsewhere.
A very serious suggestion and IMO one which should not be made
loosely.
However, there appear to be clear issues regarding the timing of
the removal, issuing of PCN and the role of the OBCEO. I cannot
make out the CEO's number on the PCN and if this is the OBCEO
then they have very serious problems well beyond this case.
#Post#: 48908--------------------------------------------------
Re: Enfield PCN Code 27 - dropped kerb
DIR By: Londoner001
Date: December 8, 2024, 12:20 pm
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Thanks guys for your advice and your offer to represent. I will
take up Mr Mustard's offer and update you with the council's
responses.
I hope that with the help of Mr Mustard, we will be able to
challenge the council's disproportionate and non-compliant
actions through the tribunal and avoid other motorists facing
similar incidents again. Before issuing such PCNs and removing
our vehicles instantly, councils should consider the road
conditions, whether the kerb is compliant -the kerb in this case
was covered with water and did not have any dimpled paving etc,
whether the CEO has permission to both issue a PCN and remove
the vehicle at the same time.
What is not acceptable is that Enfield council started the
removal process well before issuing the PCN - as Mr Mustard put,
the PCN plastic pocket on their photo is as flat as a pancake
and there was nothing in it when I collected the car. They had
put this plastic empty PCN wallet on the car just for the
'photo' evidence to claim that they issued PCN before removing
my car (even if their own photos show that the towing vehicle
was right next to my car even if there was no PCN on my car -
the photos with the towing vehicle were taken at 09:17hrs,
whereas the PCN was issued two minutes later at 09:19hrs.
The car pound staff gave the PCN to me by hand along with the
other documents e.g. the receipt of payment and how to challenge
form only after paying the amount they demanded. There was no
way of me checking the PCN or their evidence on their website to
understand what exactly happened (as I did not know the PCN
number) before paying for the PCN.
Mr Mustard - thanks for your offer. I will send you a message
now.
#Post#: 48909--------------------------------------------------
Re: Enfield PCN Code 27 - dropped kerb
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: December 8, 2024, 12:31 pm
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and there was nothing in it when I collected the car. They had
put this plastic empty PCN wallet on the car just for the
'photo' evidence to claim that they issued PCN before removing
my car
You don't know this.
And there is NO reason why the PCN should be in the envelope
when you recovered your car, in fact there's every reason why it
should NOT be because any sensible checks and balances procedure
would require the pound to satisfy themselves that the car was
removed lawfully which as a minimum would require a PCN. By all
means leave the envelope on the car.
So, before you get too virtuous about this, the issue started
with you parking at a dropped footway. At the basic level, this
is NOT a matter of law, it's a matter of what an adjudicator
believes from the photos and IMO it is NOT as clear-cut as
others suggest. C'est la vie.
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