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#Post#: 48504--------------------------------------------------
NtK and Final Demand from NCP for Gatwick North drop-off,
followed by debt collection agency letter
DIR By: FightTheGoodFight
Date: December 5, 2024, 1:30 pm
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Hi everyone,
First time poster here. I have read the board rules and general
advice for this forum section and will try to comply with all
rules.
Let's say that a registered keeper of a vehicle had received a
parking charge. The vehicle had been driven to Gatwick North
drop-off but the drop-off charges were not paid. A few months
later the keeper was going through a pile of letters and
discovered a NtK, Final Demand, and a subsequent letter from a
debt collection agency.
Various options occur to them: To write to NCP and say that
they're happy to pay the original £60, or indeed the £100, but
they will not pay any additional charges (debt agency is asking
for the standard £70 extra) ... but then they think: Well,
frankly it's ridiculous for Gatwick/NCP to charge for dropping
off passengers, let alone the "parking charges"... and they've
successfully argued against several parking charge demands
before, and why should NCP get away with the ridiculous charges?
... So the keeper thinks they'd like to fight the PCN if
possible.
Under the circumstances where they've missed the original NtK,
and therefore missed the easy opportunity to appeal at that
stage and point out that NCP can't use the PoFA because Gatwick
is not relevant land (as I currently understand it from a look
at these forums) ... and indeed they're now at the stage where
NCP have passed it to a debt collection agency (who they are
going to ignore) ... then what might be best course of action
be?
At the moment the keeper has simply written to NCP at their
registered business address, stating that they have only just
become aware of the matter (when they discovered the letters),
that they are the registered keeper, and that they want time to
prepare a proper response and will reply properly within a week.
(This is because they want to appear reasonable and acknowledge
to NCP that they're now dealing with the matter).
I will upload letters from NCP to the keeper, when I can work
out where best to host them.
Thanks!
#Post#: 48507--------------------------------------------------
Re: NtK and Final Demand from NCP for Gatwick North drop-off,
followed by debt collection agency letter
DIR By: DWMB2
Date: December 5, 2024, 1:58 pm
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There is no need to talk about hypotheticals, the registered
keeper has received a parking charge.
What is important is that you do not reveal who was driving (and
particularly not any suggestion that the registered keeper was
the driver) - you may wish to update your post to reflect this.
Imgur is a decent option for images hosting, Imgbb another
popular one.
#Post#: 48509--------------------------------------------------
Re: NtK and Final Demand from NCP for Gatwick North drop-off,
followed by debt collection agency letter
DIR By: FightTheGoodFight
Date: December 5, 2024, 2:12 pm
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Thank you, I have amended my original post to avoid ambiguity
and hypotheticals.
#Post#: 48521--------------------------------------------------
Re: NtK and Final Demand from NCP for Gatwick North drop-off,
followed by debt collection agency letter
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: December 5, 2024, 3:32 pm
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Let's talk about practicalities.
A few months later the keeper was going through a pile of
letters and discovered a NtK, Final Demand, and a subsequent
letter from a debt collection agency.
A 'pile of letters'? Had the keeper been on a lengthy trek
abroad and just returned, or only opens mail once every quarter
or perhaps doesn't live at the address held by DVLA?
So having 'simply written to NCP', have they given a different
correspondence address or what? If they pursue this issue -
which they would be foolish to do - then would a Letter of Claim
and court claim languish on a mat somewhere for an extended
period and the keeper get a judgment against them in default?
#Post#: 48546--------------------------------------------------
Re: NtK and Final Demand from NCP for Gatwick North drop-off,
followed by debt collection agency letter
DIR By: b789
Date: December 5, 2024, 7:02 pm
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As long as the Keeper declines to identify the driver, nothing
will become of this. This will never reach a hearing as even if
NCP try to issue a claim, they will not want get a spanking from
a judge.
Ignore all debt collector letters. Come back if you receive a
Letter of Claim (LoC).
They may try the old DCB Legal route which would result in a
claim but it would be discontinued as long as the Keeper follows
our advice.
#Post#: 48554--------------------------------------------------
Re: NtK and Final Demand from NCP for Gatwick North drop-off,
followed by debt collection agency letter
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: December 6, 2024, 1:53 am
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..but the keeper would only be in the correspondence chain if
they're able to receive mail promptly.
My concern is that their first post casts doubt on them being in
control of their mail which raises the spectre of default. But
if this isn't a problem then they can come back here as and
when.
#Post#: 48565--------------------------------------------------
Re: NtK and Final Demand from NCP for Gatwick North drop-off,
followed by debt collection agency letter
DIR By: FightTheGoodFight
Date: December 6, 2024, 4:07 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Thankyou for your responses, they are much appreciated.
The keeper usually opens letters in a timely manner but fell
behind for a variety of reasons. A mixture of yes, being on
holiday, home reorganisation, family members "tidying things"
including incoming letters, and honestly just feeling a bit
exhausted and prioritising opening letters which seemed
important. However they are now back on top of things and
watching out for all new correspondence.
Links to NtK and Final Demand images attached, with anything
that might uniquely identify the keeper blanked out:
HTML https://vectoreyes.github.io/NTK.jpeg
HTML https://vectoreyes.github.io/FinalReminder.jpeg
#Post#: 48568--------------------------------------------------
Re: NtK and Final Demand from NCP for Gatwick North drop-off,
followed by debt collection agency letter
DIR By: FightTheGoodFight
Date: December 6, 2024, 4:24 am
---------------------------------------------------------
The keeper is a bit concerned about getting to the point where
there is a risk of being taken to the small claims court, even
if realistically they know that NCP are likely to discontinue
before that point. While they completely take on board the
advice so far, they can't help wondering if there is *any* point
in the keeper writing back to NCP prior to receiving the LoC? Do
car park operators ever give up prior to LoC if they can see
where things are going?
#Post#: 48580--------------------------------------------------
Re: NtK and Final Demand from NCP for Gatwick North drop-off,
followed by debt collection agency letter
DIR By: b789
Date: December 6, 2024, 5:06 am
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This should have been appealed at the time. It was very easily
cancelled because NCP can only hold the driver liable. They have
no idea who was driving and as the Keeper, you are under no
legal obligation to tell them who was driving.
They would have had nowhere to go with this and even if they
rejected the initial appeal, POPLA would have upheld it.
However, the appeal deadline has passed and it is no longer
possible to appeal, or at least they do not have to accept one.
I doubt they will go as far as issuing a claim, but even if they
did, I don't understand why you are worrying? Nothing, zero,
zilch, is going to affect your credit record if that is the
reason you are anxious.
If you really feel the need to try and appeal, you could make a
formal complaint to NCP and under the Single Code of Practice
(SCoP) they are obliged to treat any complaint as an appeal
anyway.
Send this as a complaint (not an appeal) if you think it would
make you feel better:
--- Quote ---
> Dear National Car Parks Ltd (NCP),
>
> I am writing as the registered keeper of the vehicle
referenced in PCN [insert reference number]. This email serves
as a formal complaint regarding this Parking Charge Notice
(PCN), which I recently discovered but, regrettably, too late to
appeal within your stated deadlines.
>
> Despite the elapsed appeal window, I must highlight that this
PCN is fundamentally flawed and unenforceable for the following
reasons:
>
> Non-compliance with PoFA
>
> NCP cannot hold a registered keeper liable for any alleged
contravention on land that is under statutory control. Gatwick
Airport, where this alleged incident occurred, is not 'relevant
land' as defined by Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act
2012 (PoFA). Therefore, NCP cannot use PoFA provisions to
transfer liability from the driver to the registered keeper.
>
> Contractual Limitations
>
> As a matter of fact and law, Gatwick Airport falls under
statutory control, and the landowner could have invoked Airport
Bylaws to pursue liability against an owner or keeper. However,
this has not occurred. Instead, NCP has chosen to pursue a
'parking charge' based on allegations of a breach of contract,
enforceable only against the driver.
>
> NCP is neither the airport owner nor authorised to issue
penalties under bylaws, nor is this PCN claimed to be a penalty.
As such, NCP’s pursuit of the registered keeper is baseless and
cannot succeed under contract law.
>
> Driver Liability Only
>
> The registered keeper cannot be presumed or inferred to have
been the driver. Additionally, the concept of 'implied agency'
does not apply here. Liability for any alleged breach lies
solely with the driver.
>
> This would have been the content of my appeal, had I been made
aware of the PCN earlier. Given that the land is not 'relevant
land' and this PCN fails to meet the necessary legal conditions
to transfer liability, I urge NCP to cancel this PCN
immediately.
>
> Please treat this formal complaint as my challenge to the PCN
and respond accordingly. If NCP decides not to cancel the
charge, I request a clear explanation of your legal basis for
pursuing this matter, along with confirmation that the complaint
will be escalated internally under your complaints procedure and
referred to the BPA if necessary, in line with the requirements
of the Single Code of Practice.
>
> Yours faithfully,
>
>
> [Your Full Name]
> Registered Keeper
> [Contact Details]
--- End Quote ---
#Post#: 49662--------------------------------------------------
Re: NtK and Final Demand from NCP for Gatwick North drop-off,
followed by debt collection agency letter
DIR By: FightTheGoodFight
Date: December 13, 2024, 9:25 am
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Thanks b789, I have written back to them making the points
contained in your reply, and will wait to see what they do next.
Once again I appreciate the help.
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