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#Post#: 48273--------------------------------------------------
PCV Traffic commissioners hearing Please help
DIR By: Homer
Date: December 4, 2024, 9:09 am
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My son managed to get a PCV licence and had been working for a
major coach company for a few months when he was sacked for
looking down at his phone on which he was playing music whilst
driving which were connected to his earphones (stupid thing to
do he now knows) his employer reported him at the time to the
traffic commissioner this was December 2023 and now a year later
he has been sent a letter advising of a hearing before the
traffic commissioner in 7 days time, he needs to respond by post
to a) confirm he is attending and b) if he will have
representation?
He is now working for a smaller coach company and is very
careful whilst driving.
He could potentially lose his license and his livelihood
😭
What can he do to ensure his licence isn't taken away and he can
remain in his job? Is there a way to do this? Is it worth
getting a solicitor? If so will it be expensive?
Any help would be greatly appreciated as we are now quite
desperate as there's a lot on the line 🙏
#Post#: 48286--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCV Traffic commissioners hearing Please help
DIR By: NewJudge
Date: December 4, 2024, 10:01 am
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Looking at this document (Senior Traffic Commissioner Statutory
Document No. 6 - Vocational Driver Conduct):
HTML https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/65956a19614fa2000df3a865/Stat_Doc_6_Driver_Conduct_-_Version_11.0.pdf
It looks like he can expect his vocational licence entitlement
to be suspended for four weeks (see page 30 - 1st CU80 in a
commercial
vehicle. CU80 is the endorsement code for use of mobile phone).
This is assuming the transgression took place whilst he was
driving a commercial
vehicle.
Did he actually receive a conviction or fixed penalty for the
offence? I'm not sure whether this makes a difference.
#Post#: 48288--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCV Traffic commissioners hearing Please help
DIR By: Homer
Date: December 4, 2024, 10:23 am
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Thank you for the response and link. He did not receive a
penalty or a fixed notice the police were not involved it was
his company who caught him on camera and dismissed him from his
job and reported it to the traffic commissioner at the time.
Would he need representation?
#Post#: 48292--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCV Traffic commissioners hearing Please help
DIR By: mickR
Date: December 4, 2024, 10:51 am
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to clarify, when you say he "looked down at his phone" which was
"connected to his earphones"....
where was the phone? in his hand? on the seat? in a cradle?
connected by cable, or Bluetooth?
#Post#: 48293--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCV Traffic commissioners hearing Please help
DIR By: Homer
Date: December 4, 2024, 10:53 am
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On his lap I believe and connected by cable
#Post#: 48294--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCV Traffic commissioners hearing Please help
DIR By: mickR
Date: December 4, 2024, 10:57 am
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how did they catch him? dash cam? someone reported him?
did he touch the phone AT ALL?
#Post#: 48295--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCV Traffic commissioners hearing Please help
DIR By: Homer
Date: December 4, 2024, 11:03 am
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They have cameras fitted inside the vehicle and if the driver
closes their eyes for too long it sets the camera off, they also
have cameras if the driver brakes too harshly / suddenly. I
wouldn't be able to confirm if he touched the phone or not but I
can confirm that later.
#Post#: 48300--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCV Traffic commissioners hearing Please help
DIR By: 666
Date: December 4, 2024, 11:26 am
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We have a regular poster - Roythebus - who I believe knows a bit
about the Traffic Commissioners.
#Post#: 48304--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCV Traffic commissioners hearing Please help
DIR By: mickR
Date: December 4, 2024, 11:57 am
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yes, I was going to suggest Roy might have views on this.
I'm just trying to see if there is even a case to answer for the
OPs son.
if he looked at the phone but didn't touch it, that would be no
different imo to looking at any other instrument.
this may also bring into question his dismissal.
(subject to any specific conditions in his contract)
NOT that I'm condoning a bus driver having his phone on his lap
>:(
#Post#: 48308--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCV Traffic commissioners hearing Please help
DIR By: Clackers
Date: December 4, 2024, 12:15 pm
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So the TC is an interesting one. Not been in front of them
myself (I drove PCV and work elsewhere in the industry now) But
have had to study them and learn for CPC related reasons. One
thing I would say off the beat, is TC driver hearings are
generally open to the public, so if you want to go with your Son
to watch what goes on, you can do (unless it states it's closed
doors on the day) and there's the possibly that he may not be
speaking to the actual TC, but a deputy on the day. Deputy's
have the same power as the TC itself mind, so that point's
rather moot.
My understanding is there are solicitors that deal with the TC
as well, but unless you're looking at a revocation of the
license or a winnable argument, I wouldn't bother personally.
The TC generally tends to take four courses of action depending
on what's going on. No action, A verbal warning, A suspension or
a revocation of the license. Generally we could rule out
revocation and no action as they are the extreme end of the
scale for both ends if you will.
The fact your son was driving and I assume, moving at the time
will make this most likely lean towards as Newjudge said,
towards the 4 week period. Length of service may come into
account too with the TC potentially being more harsh based on
less experience. One driver I spoke to who had been in front of
the TC for mobile phone use (Looking at a bus stop, doors open
handbrake on) was given a ban of 5 days instead of 4 weeks due
to 27 years of service with no issues, this particular issue
also being a report from the company (Most companies are obliged
to inform the TC of these actions as part of operator license
related duties)
On a note as well, with how the TC is (to my admittedly only
researched and spoken to drivers viewpoint) the fact the phone
was in the lap shouldn't reduce the violation. Coach/Bus/Lorry
drivers shouldn't have the phone on anything but a cradle in a
cab period.
This may be useful for a read to give you a heads up on how
things work along with some other info
HTML https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/a-guide-to-driver-conduct-hearings/a-guide-to-driver-conduct-hearings
IF you want to see what kind of examples of punishments that
have been meted out, this is on the government website as well,
however it does not include why they were at the TC, just the
punishment.
HTML https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/regulatory-decisions-made-about-the-conduct-of-professional-drivers
Not really sure of anything else truth be told, I made an
account just to respond to this post :)
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