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#Post#: 54759--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bromley council. Charge Certif. PCN code 27, parked on
Albemarle road blocked with flower pot.no sig
DIR By: John U.K.
Date: January 23, 2025, 12:43 pm
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Please to post up all sides of the NtO, redacting only yr name &
address.
#Post#: 54784--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bromley council. Charge Certif. PCN code 27, parked on
Albemarle road blocked with flower pot.no
DIR By: Justicenow
Date: January 23, 2025, 2:10 pm
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--- Quote from: John U.K. link ---
>
> Please to post up all sides of the NtO, redacting only yr name
& address.
>
--- End Quote ---
Please see the pages of the NTO here
HTML https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/v9ipq63ruapznqf3zk1ki/NTO-parking-fine.pdf?rlkey=sv1vavs284n77viepg7fnsdhg&st=35a52wgl&dl=0
#Post#: 54809--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bromley council. Charge Certif. PCN code 27, parked on
Albemarle road blocked with flower pot.no sig
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: January 23, 2025, 4:29 pm
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OK, so I presume you parked here ?
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/DuGrsRFqkcLsmrYs9
The PCN was served because you were parked adjacent to a dropped
kerb. I have captured the GSV view that shows a dropped kerb on
each side of the now-unused stub of road. If you were parked
obstructing either of those dropped kerbs then the contravention
is made out, as far as I can see.
A look at the CEO photos on the Bromley webpages, shows your car
parked in the middle of the road stub, and when compared to my
GSV view, clearly demonstrates a contravention. It is difficult
to see how any car could park in this very small stub of a road
and not block the dropped footways, frankly.
There may be a 'technical' appeal which other posters may
suggest, so wait a bit to see if anything turns up. I had a
quick look on the Bromley council web pages which lists the
statutory grounds for representations, but only allows one to be
selected, which is not correct; an appellant can select more
than one in accordance with the regulations.
See here, Chapter 2 5(2)(b) (i) and (ii)
HTML https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukdsi/2022/9780348232752/part/2/chapter/2
Would this failure not fully to follow the above regulation win
at the adjudicators, London Tribunals ? One would hope so, but
you'd have to risk the full PCN penalty to find out.
#Post#: 54812--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bromley council. Charge Certif. PCN code 27, parked on
Albemarle road blocked with flower pot.no sig
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: January 23, 2025, 4:35 pm
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Photos:
HTML https://i.imgur.com/66G3Yxz.jpeg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/NEix64q.jpeg
The most blatantly obvious ground of appeal is that the PCN was
not served, hence service of a Notice to Owner is a procedural
impropriety.
[member=3567]Justicenow[/member] did you see the CEO? Or did you
come back to your car and not see anything untoward at all?
#Post#: 54823--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bromley council. Charge Certif. PCN code 27, parked on
Albemarle road blocked with flower pot.no sig
DIR By: Severndroog
Date: January 23, 2025, 5:17 pm
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I use that road regularly and have spotted vehicles parked on
that stub. It clearly is a stub, rather than a nonfunctional
road. The kerb is yellow lined. In order to park there the
driver has to ignore the bollard, but I don’t think it has a
keep left sign on it. It’s hard to see that parking there causes
any sort of obstruction to road traffic but it does
inconvenience pedestrians with wheelchairs/walking
frames/buggies wishing to cross the road using the dropped
kerbs.
Will be fascinating to see the outcome.
#Post#: 54827--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bromley council. Charge Certif. PCN code 27, parked on
Albemarle road blocked with flower pot.no sig
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: January 23, 2025, 5:25 pm
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[member=1905]Severndroog[/member] parking in this way is at
least two if not three contraventions: obstructing a dropped
kerb, contravening a single yellow line waiting restriction
(during prescribed hours), and possibly parking more than 50 cm
from the carriageway. While we may well be able to help
Justicenow get his PCN cancelled, parking in this way is clearly
unlawful.
#Post#: 54828--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bromley council. Charge Certif. PCN code 27, parked on
Albemarle road blocked with flower pot.no sig
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: January 23, 2025, 5:26 pm
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edited
#Post#: 54829--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bromley council. Charge Certif. PCN code 27, parked on
Albemarle road blocked with flower pot.no sig
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: January 23, 2025, 5:31 pm
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--- Quote from: Incandescent link ---
>
> [quote author=cp8759 link=topic=4115.msg54812#msg54812
date=1737671722]
> [member=3567]Justicenow[/member] did you see the CEO? Or did
you come back to your car and not see anything untoward at all?
>
--- End Quote ---
But photos of any kind are not a legal requirement, so the
absence of a PCN yellow envelope is not definite proof of
non-service.
[/quote]
If the matter is raised it is for the council to prove that the
PCN was served, it is not for the motorist to prove that it
wasn't, the standard of evidence is the balance of
probabilities. At this stage I'm simply trying to establish what
evidence Justicenow can give us.
#Post#: 54845--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bromley council. Charge Certif. PCN code 27, parked on
Albemarle road blocked with flower pot.no sig
DIR By: Justicenow
Date: January 23, 2025, 10:03 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: cp8759 link ---
>
> [quote author=Incandescent link=topic=4115.msg54828#msg54828
date=1737674794]
> [quote author=cp8759 link=topic=4115.msg54812#msg54812
date=1737671722]
> [member=3567]Justicenow[/member] did you see the CEO? Or did
you come back to your car and not see anything untoward at all?
>
--- End Quote ---
But photos of any kind are not a legal requirement, so the
absence of a PCN yellow envelope is not definite proof of
non-service.
[/quote]
If the matter is raised it is for the council to prove that the
PCN was served, it is not for the motorist to prove that it
wasn't, the standard of evidence is the balance of
probabilities. At this stage I'm simply trying to establish what
evidence Justicenow can give us.
[/quote]
Thank you for looking into the details. I did see the CEO when I
returned to my car, after being parked there only for a couple
of minutes. I started to move the car from that spot while the
officer was still preparing and printing the ticket. While I was
moving the car, he tried to stick the envelope on my moving
car’s windscreen but could not do that properly and I didn’t let
him take a photo. I was confident that there was no
contravention because there aren’t any signs there at all. I
parked on the left side where there is no yellow line, but it is
a dropped curb on both sides though. Previously, I spoke with
other road users who had successfully appealed their parking
tickets, being parked in that same spot, who shared with me
that, apparently, because of the changes in the road layout and
flower pot blocking it, the general rules do not apply (which
might not be true).
#Post#: 54852--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bromley council. Charge Certif. PCN code 27, parked on
Albemarle road blocked with flower pot.no sig
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: January 24, 2025, 3:41 am
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Interesting legal issue here IMO:
86Prohibition of parking at dropped footways etc.
(1)In a special enforcement area a vehicle must not be parked on
the carriageway adjacent to a footway, cycle track or verge
where—...(the rest is not germane)
So is > 50cm adjacent?
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