DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
---------------------------------------------------------
FreeTrafficLegalAdvice
HTML https://ftla.createaforum.com
---------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************************
DIR Return to: Speeding and other criminal offences
*****************************************************
#Post#: 47995--------------------------------------------------
Re: Question on merging 2 incidents into 1 offence
DIR By: PallasAthena
Date: December 3, 2024, 5:03 am
---------------------------------------------------------
If there is any doubt about her current endorsements your friend
should go the DVLA Driving Licence site on gov.uk and look up
her licence details. The 'Penalties and disqualifications' tab
will tell her what endoresements are currently appearing on her
licence and when they expire.
It's clearly important she is sure of the current facts about
her licence before deciding what to do next.
HTML https://www.gov.uk/view-driving-licence
#Post#: 47999--------------------------------------------------
Re: Question on merging 2 incidents into 1 offence
DIR By: NewJudge
Date: December 3, 2024, 5:41 am
---------------------------------------------------------
If she has two fixed penalty offers and she accepts them both,
if the second takes her to twelve points her acceptance should
be refused and court proceedings initiated.
#Post#: 48005--------------------------------------------------
Re: Question on merging 2 incidents into 1 offence
DIR By: BertB
Date: December 3, 2024, 6:01 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Its a conditional offer. One of the conditions are that the
accused will not be on 12 points as a result of accepting the
COFP.
I believe that the sausage factory does not automatically know
when sending these out how many current points the recipient
has. It will be upon entering the information on receipt of the
completed COFP and payment that the error will flag up and it
will be sent to summons instead.
One of the offers can be taken up though, assuming that your
friend has no more than 6 points currently. Strictly. it would
only be one of the two offence that has to go to court, unless
your friend opts for court on both to make an argument for them
being 2 offences committed on the same occasion.
#Post#: 48076--------------------------------------------------
Re: Question on merging 2 incidents into 1 offence
DIR By: Soadfan1
Date: December 3, 2024, 11:51 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: BertB link ---
>
> Its a conditional offer. One of the conditions are that the
accused will not be on 12 points as a result of accepting the
COFP.
>
> I believe that the sausage factory does not automatically know
when sending these out how many current points the recipient
has. It will be upon entering the information on receipt of the
completed COFP and payment that the error will flag up and it
will be sent to summons instead.
>
> One of the offers can be taken up though, assuming that your
friend has no more than 6 points currently. Strictly. it would
only be one of the two offence that has to go to court, unless
your friend opts for court on both to make an argument for them
being 2 offences committed on the same occasion.
>
--- End Quote ---
Ok I did wonder that. Yes she already has 6 points.
So should she reply back accepting the fixed penalty or just
choose the option to go to court now seeing as that she will
anyway?
She is sure she does have 6, it was only that neither of those
two cofps that she admitted liability are a summons to court.
Im not aqware of the procedure so if its the case that once
both are replied to it will then flag up, fair enough.
#Post#: 48108--------------------------------------------------
Re: Question on merging 2 incidents into 1 offence
DIR By: NewJudge
Date: December 3, 2024, 1:35 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote ---
> So should she reply back accepting the fixed penalty or just
choose the option to go to court now seeing as that she will
anyway?
--- End Quote ---
If she wants to make the "two offences committed on the same
occasion" argument she will have to attend court.
#Post#: 48112--------------------------------------------------
Re: Question on merging 2 incidents into 1 offence
DIR By: andy_foster
Date: December 3, 2024, 1:51 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: NewJudge link ---
>
> If she wants to make the "two offences committed on the same
occasion" argument she will have to attend court.
>
--- End Quote ---
<cough> Section 30 of The Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988
HTML https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/53/section/30
</cough>
edit: I make no comment as to whether or not it would be easier
to persuade the bench that they were both "committed on the same
occasion" if the bench were to hear both charges, whether taking
the COFP would be the safe option insofar as it would "bank" the
fixed penalty for that offence, or whether/how the "totality"
principle would apply.
IOW, I can tell you what the law allows the bench to do. I am
far less certain as to what a bench would be likely to do within
their own gift.
edit2: Technically your post as quoted is correct. However, in
the context of the question, the implication (or inference) from
the was that both would need to be convictions.
#Post#: 48129--------------------------------------------------
Re: Question on merging 2 incidents into 1 offence
DIR By: Soadfan1
Date: December 3, 2024, 3:10 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: NewJudge link ---
>
> [quote]So should she reply back accepting the fixed penalty
or just choose the option to go to court now seeing as that she
will anyway?
--- End Quote ---
If she wants to make the "two offences committed on the same
occasion" argument she will have to attend court.
[/quote]
Does she need to state that on one of the COFPS forms, or can
she make that plea in court as will she have to attend court
anyway if she has reached 12 points?
Thanks.
#Post#: 48166--------------------------------------------------
Re: Question on merging 2 incidents into 1 offence
DIR By: NewJudge
Date: December 3, 2024, 5:26 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote ---
> edit2: Technically your post as quoted is correct. However, in
the context of the question, the implication (or inference) from
the was that both would need to be convictions.
--- End Quote ---
Yes, Andy, I quite agree that a FP could be taken and only the
second offence dealt with in court where the "same occasion"
argument can be made. It certainly has the advantage of ensuring
one of the offences is sentenced by way of a FP. But I think
that argument does not have much chance of success and I believe
what little chance it has may be enhanced by presenting the two
infringements to the Bench together - even though the overall
financial penalty may be greater.
As you know, magistrates are, in the main, simple country folk
who don't like to be baffled too much by complications! ;D
--- Quote ---
> Both give the option of accepting 3 points and a fine or going
to court and neither say she has to go to court.
--- End Quote ---
They may not say so but she will be required to attend court at
the very least for the single charge that will take her to
twelve points. If the ticket office people do their job
properly, if she accepts a fixed penalty for the second offence
her acceptance will be rejected and court proceedings issued.
#Post#: 48174--------------------------------------------------
Re: Question on merging 2 incidents into 1 offence
DIR By: Soadfan1
Date: December 3, 2024, 6:46 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Ok so the best or rather, only option here is for her to
accept both fixed penalty and 3 points and then wait for a court
summons?
As I said she is accepting of taking a ban on the chin, it was
me who mentioned to her that there were occasions when an
offence could be merged into one, but I can see that it is
unlikely in this case and could have bigger financial
repercussions otherwise.
Thanks
#Post#: 48200--------------------------------------------------
Re: Question on merging 2 incidents into 1 offence
DIR By: NewJudge
Date: December 4, 2024, 3:21 am
---------------------------------------------------------
It isn't the only option.
She can decline both fixed penalties and wait for court
proceedings to be issued for both offences.
The advantage of taking a FP for one is that it guarantees one
of them being dealt with at the reduced level.
AS above, I think the "same occasion" argument might stand a
better chance of success if both offences are dealt with in
court. But even if that succeeds, it will still cost more
*****************************************************
Page 2 of 3
DIR Previous Page
DIR Next Page