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#Post#: 47286--------------------------------------------------
PCN 19 Parked in resident or shared use without valid permit
DIR By: EmmaP
Date: November 27, 2024, 9:41 am
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Hi,
Not sure if there is anything I can do about this. I was one
minute off the CPZ timing 20.29, I parked there at 20.22
thinking restrictions ended at 18.30 on a Saturday evening. They
do end at 18.30 on the other side of the road, my bad! Any ideas
on whether there are any grounds for appeal? PCN here
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-oSpn2hCql1az_P7AoyWBbIKKa05Yu8W/view?usp=sharing
#Post#: 47302--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN 19 Parked in resident or shared use without valid permit
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: November 27, 2024, 10:50 am
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How come you got a code 19 - do you have a recently expired
permit of some sort. The u suffix is electronic payment.
London Councils guidance I recall is not to enforce within 2
minutes of beginning and end of restricted times so this is a
point, plus there is no observation time on the PCN nor time
stamps on their pics.
HTML https://i.ibb.co/K9w8hK6/lam3.jpg
HTML https://i.ibb.co/gmDT88T/lam2.jpg
HTML https://i.ibb.co/bbhMy9G/lam1.jpg
HTML https://i.ibb.co/vP0KSYc/lam4.jpg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/yvQiKBg.jpeg
#Post#: 47315--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN 19 Parked in resident or shared use without valid permit
DIR By: John U.K.
Date: November 27, 2024, 11:42 am
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--- Quote ---
> plus there is no observation time on the PCN nor time stamps
on their pics.
--- End Quote ---
The last six digits on the photos are the time-stamps, from
20:24:51 - 20:30: 31 (the last showing PCN affixed). :(
#Post#: 47340--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN 19 Parked in resident or shared use without valid permit
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: November 27, 2024, 3:39 pm
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OP, this thread is confusing.
Firstly, you were in a parking place with a clearly visible
traffic on a lamp column immediately adjacent to your car. Yet
you refer to a CPZ which only affects single yellow lines.
Secondly, as per stamfordman the contravention grounds refer to
'electronic payment' and imply some sort of shared bay...but it
isn't.
Further and better particulars from you pl.
#Post#: 47416--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN 19 Parked in resident or shared use without valid permit
DIR By: EmmaP
Date: November 28, 2024, 5:29 am
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Sorry for any confusion - I know I made a mistake as the other
side of the road is 18.30. I don't understand when you say CPZ
(Controlled Parking Zone) is for single yellow lines only. My
understanding of CPZ is there are parking restrictions in place
which are governed by time. My mistake was to park on the wrong
side of the road but I was tired and late. However I was
wondering whether there was a representation I could make as it
was 20.29 when the ticket was issued. If not I have to suck it
up but to my mind its worth a try as there are so many experts
on here
#Post#: 47426--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN 19 Parked in resident or shared use without valid permit
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: November 28, 2024, 6:30 am
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--- Quote from: EmmaP link ---
>
> Sorry for any confusion - I know I made a mistake as the other
side of the road is 18.30. I don't understand when you say CPZ
(Controlled Parking Zone) is for single yellow lines only. My
understanding of CPZ is there are parking restrictions in place
which are governed by time. My mistake was to park on the wrong
side of the road but I was tired and late. However I was
wondering whether there was a representation I could make as it
was 20.29 when the ticket was issued. If not I have to suck it
up but to my mind its worth a try as there are so many experts
on here
>
--- End Quote ---
Your understanding of what a CPZ means is not correct, a CPZ
governs the restriction times on single-yellow lines within the
zone. This is so the council don't have to put up a sign by
every bit of SYL in the zone. Times for parking bays may have
the same restrictions, but need signs for each bay.
I would say it is well worth submitting representations on the
time issue. How many car clocks or watches are synchronised with
the atomic clock the council will claim their cameras are ? Of
course any informal reps you submit will automatically be
refused; that is how they make their money, because most people
then just cough-up. To contest the time issue, you have to be
prepared to take them all the way to London Tribunals.
#Post#: 47445--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN 19 Parked in resident or shared use without valid permit
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: November 28, 2024, 8:21 am
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OP, you haven't answered my question. The lower level penalty
code 19 is for an invalid permit - do you have an expired
resident or visitor permit or maybe one from another zone?
Otherwise you should have been given a £130 code 16 penalty.
As for timing leaving aside the CEO's pics and relying on the
PCN, you have a good case to hold Lambeth to account to London
Councils guidance as below.
--------
Issuing a PCN where only a minor infringement is occurring
There are certain circumstances where a contravention is
technically occurring but is sufficiently minor not to warrant a
PCN being issued. The following is a list of some of the
situations in which consideration should be made as to whether
or not to issue a PCN.
b) Time restrictions/paid parking
Where a time restriction applies, CEOs should not issue a PCN
less than two minutes before a restriction starts or less than
two minutes after the restriction has expired. For example, if a
restriction starts (or paid-for time expires) at 8.00am then a
PCN should only be issued if the vehicle is in contravention
after 8.02am. Similarly, if a restriction ends at 6.00pm then no
PCNs should be issued after 5.58pm. It should be stressed that a
vehicle in such a situation does not have the right to be in
place for two minutes – this is not a grace period.
#Post#: 47481--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN 19 Parked in resident or shared use without valid permit
DIR By: EmmaP
Date: November 28, 2024, 11:10 am
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Thanks for your comments, I have a permit for my address in
Lambeth - could this be why it’s a code 19? It would be the
first time they have taken that into account! Therefore if I
appeal and lose it could increase? Or if it’s an incorrect code
does that nullify the PCN?
#Post#: 47513--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN 19 Parked in resident or shared use without valid permit
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: November 28, 2024, 3:54 pm
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OP, we are trying to help and understand why the meanings of our
questions might seem odd. But they're directed towards helping
you and so far, I for one am confused.
If a motorist parks in a bay such as yours they should be issued
with a code 16 higher level penalty because it's a permit
holders only bay. But London councils often don't when dealing
with their own resident permit holders because 16 has to carry
the higher level penalty. Instead they use code 19(lower level)
which is a derivative of 16 and its sister, code 12. This
confuses the average motorist. If you're interested, here's the
list:
HTML https://archive.londoncouncils.gov.uk/download/file/fid/28636
A PCN must state: e)the grounds on which the civil enforcement
officer serving the notice believes that a penalty charge is
payable;
According to your PCN, there's no way that the grounds can be
reconciled against any list, schedule, regulation or guidance
which I know.
Invalid permit? You either had one that was at one time valid
for this parking place or not. Are Lambeth taking liberties
with the narrow definition of 'invalid' to include any resident
permit holder who is parking in a bay reserved for other
permits? This is not their prerogative, it's the Mayor of
London's.
Electronic payment - ???
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