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#Post#: 47365--------------------------------------------------
Re: RB Greenwich, Roper St, Code 01, Sunday parked on school
markings
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: November 27, 2024, 5:25 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: stamfordman link ---
>
> The yellow lines are a bit degraded. About 10 years ago they
changed from a single to double yellow.
>
> They did lose a tribunal case when there was a single yellow
where the adjudicator said it wasn't reasonable to know the
zig-zags don't have a kerb line especially as there was no
timeplate.
>
> [img width=808.9930419921875
height=825]
HTML https://i.ibb.co/5GnLzGF/r2.jpg[/img]
> [img width=808.9930419921875
height=825]
HTML https://i.ibb.co/89Qdcr7/r1.jpg[/img]
>
--- End Quote ---
Well, I suppose that argument could prevail again, why not ? Of
course the OP would end up at London Tribunals with the full PCN
penalty in play so it would be something of a risk.
However, no harm in submitting reps on the basis that the
presence of two restrictions is not made clear enough, and see
what tosh they reply with.
#Post#: 47391--------------------------------------------------
Re: RB Greenwich, Roper St, Code 01, Sunday parked on school
markings
DIR By: Milky Way1
Date: November 28, 2024, 3:37 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Thank you.
I would be grateful if you could check this wording:
Dear Royal Borough of Greenwich Parking Services,
I am writing to formally challenge PCN [Insert PCN Number],
issued on [Date], for the alleged contravention of "Parking in a
restricted street during prescribed hours." I believe this fine
was issued in error, and I would like to present the following
points in my defence:
1. Parking Location and Time
On the date in question, I parked outside a school with clear
signage stating "No Stopping Mon-Fri, 8am-5pm." I ensured to
park on a Sunday, outside the restricted hours. Additionally, I
parked outside the residential parking bays and within the
yellow school zone, assuming the restriction only applied during
the specified weekday hours, and white residential marking.
2. Confusion Due to Mixed Markings
The area contains yellow lines ( not sure are these double or
single) alongside school zig-zag markings, and white residential
bays. The school markings and the Board clearly indicate a
time-limited stopping restriction. I took the marking to allow
parking outside restricted time. However, now it seems there is
an overlap in signage and markings that create confusion about
when parking is permitted, especially outside school hours.
Conclusion
Based on the unclear and overlapping markings and signage, I
respectfully request the cancellation of this PCN. I look
forward to your response.
Sincerely,
Thank you!
#Post#: 47398--------------------------------------------------
Re: RB Greenwich, Roper St, Code 01, Sunday parked on school
markings
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: November 28, 2024, 4:28 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Looks OK, but they will reject it as they do all informal
challenges, so don't get too upset. Appeals have been won on the
basis of lack of clarity in this situation which is found all
over London at schools where there is also a parking
restriction.
#Post#: 47409--------------------------------------------------
Re: RB Greenwich, Roper St, Code 01, Sunday parked on school
markings
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: November 28, 2024, 5:11 am
---------------------------------------------------------
OP, just re-read what you've written pl and what, IMO, is the
only inference which can be drawn.
The 'mixed messages' appeals have as far as I'm aware only
applied to SYL AND where no additional traffic signs were
present NB. even within a CPZ an authority may place repeater
signs reminding motorists of the restriction.
The law as regards CPZ:
“controlled parking zone”
either—
(a)
an area—
(i)
in which every part of every road is subject to a prohibition
indicated by single or double yellow lines or single or double
yellow kerb markings...... whether or not an upright sign to
indicate the same prohibition is placed in conjunction with the
line or kerb marking;
And as regards traffic signs:
Traffic signs
18.—(1) Where an order relating to any road has been made, the
order making authority shall take such steps as are necessary to
secure—
(a)before the order comes into force, the placing on or near the
road of such traffic signs in such positions as the order making
authority may consider requisite for securing that adequate
information as to the effect of the order is made available to
persons using the road;
(b)the maintenance of such signs for so long as the order
remains in force
From a legal perspective IMO your problem is:
A traffic sign MAY NOT be placed to mark DYL (notice that the
definition above refers to '..or the line' in the singular).
An authority may not erect a sign to the effect..'look out,
double yellow lines about'.
And your reps as drafted seem to acknowledge seeing the lines,
both SYL and DYL, whereas most, if not all, successful appeals
are predicated upon not seeing the line which, when compounded
by the absence of an upright sign, left the motorist unaware.
So where will you stand in your reps:
Did see lines, but thought they were SYL (I don't think we've
yet discovered whether when you parked is actually covered by
the CPZ anyway!);
Saw both types and was confused by this;
Didn't see any and focused solely on the No Stopping
prohibition;
Or.....?
#Post#: 47410--------------------------------------------------
Re: RB Greenwich, Roper St, Code 01, Sunday parked on school
markings
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: November 28, 2024, 5:16 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I would just say you were puzzled to get the PCN as you parked
on no stopping zig-zags not in force at that time and you can't
see why the contravention stated on the PCN occurred.
It's not a 'formal challenge' - it's an informal one.
#Post#: 47531--------------------------------------------------
Re: RB Greenwich, Roper St, Code 01, Sunday parked on school
markings
DIR By: Milky Way1
Date: November 29, 2024, 2:33 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Thank you so much!
Appealed last night, will let you know what they say.
#Post#: 49781--------------------------------------------------
Re: RB Greenwich, Roper St, Code 01, Sunday parked on school
markings
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: December 14, 2024, 8:52 am
---------------------------------------------------------
This adjudication offers little hope.
---------------
Case reference
Authority
Contravention date
Contravention time
Contravention location
Penalty amount
Contravention
Referral date
Decision Date
Adjudicator
Appeal decision
Direction
within 28 days.
Reasons
The Enforcement Authority has provided photographs of the
vehicle parked on double yellow lines. Double yellow lines mean
that parking is not permitted at any time. The restriction is 24
hours a day, 7 days a week. There is no requirement for signage
to accompany double yellow lines.
The appellant asserts that he believed parking was permitted. He
refers to signage and has provided Google images. The signage in
his images relates to school markings. The appellant also claims
that the yellow lines are poorly marked.
I find that the signage on which the appellant relies refers to
school markings where stopping is prohibited Monday to Friday
during specified hours. The double yellow lines have their own
waiting restrictions which is 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. I
find that signage and road markings are clear.
I am satisfied that the contravention occurred and that the
appellant has not established a ground of appeal or exemption.
I refuse the appeal. The penalty of £130 is payable.
#Post#: 50308--------------------------------------------------
Re: RB Greenwich, Roper St, Code 01, Sunday parked on school
markings
DIR By: Milky Way1
Date: December 18, 2024, 3:02 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Thank you! I am still waiting for the reply from the LA. Once
received I'll inform here.
In the meantime I got another one! Yellow box Eltham High
street, outside Fire Station. Shall I post in another thread, or
can I send here?
Thank you again!
#Post#: 50313--------------------------------------------------
Re: RB Greenwich, Roper St, Code 01, Sunday parked on school
markings
DIR By: John U.K.
Date: December 18, 2024, 3:26 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote ---
> Shall I post in another thread, or can I send here?
--- End Quote ---
Please to start a new thread, or we shall be hopelessly muddled!
(Forum rule - one case, one thread.)
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