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#Post#: 3414--------------------------------------------------
Dagenham - Contravention Code 30, parked too long
DIR By: george74
Date: August 17, 2023, 9:54 am
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Hi all,
Got another one.
My wife is a blue badge holder. We applied for a virtual blue
badge meaning we can park in bays where we would normally
display a BB but don't have to in the borough. To be honest the
usage of the virtual blue badge is unclear and maybe why we got
the PCN.
We parked in a residential bay marked HW where we are allowed to
park but we received a ticket when we came back to the car. We
should be able to park there for unlimited time.
At home, a few roads away, we are either parked in a disabled
bay or residential bay for unlimited hours with no badge
displayed and have had no issues.
I have previously applied for a residential permit but was
denied due to already having the virtual blue badge permit.
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 3419--------------------------------------------------
Re: Dagenham - Contravention Code 30, parked too long
DIR By: Pastmybest
Date: August 17, 2023, 11:55 am
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Never heard of a virtual BB as the BB is not a council scheme
But if you hold a BB for that council then you are correct on
street there is no time limit and should challenge on that basis
#Post#: 3421--------------------------------------------------
Re: Dagenham - Contravention Code 30, parked too long
DIR By: Kirbs
Date: August 17, 2023, 12:22 pm
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The veterans will be along to help more, I'm sure, but since I'm
familiar with the area I'll weigh in here. There are a couple of
bays right up by the corner of the Heathway that aren't actually
HW permit bays, they're 1 hour short-stay bays. GSV below:
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/NPpsjtxzosaG7PXD7?g_st=ic
For reference, I believe virtual BBs are something LBBD does to
stop BB holders having to pay for a CPZ permit when the BB
entitles them to park without one, but also avoids you having to
leave your BB in your car for extended periods (e.g., overnight)
and risk having your car broken into and BB nicked. The virtual
BBs replace the paid residents permit but are only valid for
your CPZ.
#Post#: 3438--------------------------------------------------
Re: Dagenham - Contravention Code 30, parked too long
DIR By: Pastmybest
Date: August 17, 2023, 5:37 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Kirbs link ---
>
> The veterans will be along to help more, I'm sure, but since
I'm familiar with the area I'll weigh in here. There are a
couple of bays right up by the corner of the Heathway that
aren't actually HW permit bays, they're 1 hour short-stay bays.
GSV below:
>
>
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/NPpsjtxzosaG7PXD7?g_st=ic
>
> doesn't matter re the bays as the time limit does not apply to
BB holders due to the exemption for disabled persons act
>
> For reference, I believe virtual BBs are something LBBD does
to stop BB holders having to pay for a CPZ permit when the BB
entitles them to park without one, but also avoids you having to
leave your BB in your car for extended periods (e.g., overnight)
and risk having your car broken into and BB nicked. The virtual
BBs replace the paid residents permit but are only valid for
your CPZ.
>
--- End Quote ---
#Post#: 3439--------------------------------------------------
Re: Dagenham - Contravention Code 30, parked too long
DIR By: Kirbs
Date: August 17, 2023, 6:01 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Pastmybest link ---
>
> doesn't matter re the bays as the time limit does not apply to
BB holders due to the exemption for disabled persons act
>
--- End Quote ---
However, OP states they were relying on the virtual BB
(presumably because they were under the impression they were in
the applicable resident bay?) and evidence photos from the PCN
show the physical blue badge wasn't on display, which is what
has thrown a spanner in the works, I think.
#Post#: 3449--------------------------------------------------
Re: Dagenham - Contravention Code 30, parked too long
DIR By: DancingDad
Date: August 18, 2023, 3:54 am
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--- Quote from: Kirbs link ---
>
> [quote author=Pastmybest link=topic=402.msg3438#msg3438
date=1692311824]
> doesn't matter re the bays as the time limit does not apply to
BB holders due to the exemption for disabled persons act
>
--- End Quote ---
However, OP states they were relying on the virtual BB
(presumably because they were under the impression they were in
the applicable resident bay?) and evidence photos from the PCN
show the physical blue badge wasn't on display, which is what
has thrown a spanner in the works, I think.
[/quote]
Op needs to confirm what bay they were parked within
Any council photos?
#Post#: 3460--------------------------------------------------
Re: Dagenham - Contravention Code 30, parked too long
DIR By: george74
Date: August 18, 2023, 6:36 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Hmm. I see the issue now. It looks like I was parked next to
both signs but closer towards the one that is not a residential.
To be honest I never realised there were separate parking
conditions for that little strip - in google maps you can see
the bays are separated but the dotted line that is supposed to
separate them is barely visible. However that line doesn't exist
at this moment in time (I think), so it looks like one big bay
for 4 cars.
#Post#: 3466--------------------------------------------------
Re: Dagenham - Contravention Code 30, parked too long
DIR By: DancingDad
Date: August 18, 2023, 8:03 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: george74 link ---
>
> Hmm. I see the issue now. It looks like I was parked next to
both signs but closer towards the one that is not a residential.
>
> To be honest I never realised there were separate parking
conditions for that little strip - in google maps you can see
the bays are separated but the dotted line that is supposed to
separate them is barely visible. However that line doesn't exist
at this moment in time (I think), so it looks like one big bay
for 4 cars.
>
--- End Quote ---
Check that on the ground and get photos to show non-existent
divider if you can?
I doubt the poor lines just about visible in streetview would
pass muster with an adjudicator but streetview is historical and
may not be accepted as evidence of what is there now.
#Post#: 3480--------------------------------------------------
Re: Dagenham - Contravention Code 30, parked too long
DIR By: Pastmybest
Date: August 18, 2023, 9:27 am
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People shold not get tied up with the virtual BB vs physical one
For if the council operate a scheme that really only has one
purpose, to prevent theft, then providing you have a registered
virtual BB that must be taken as a BB on display then providing
you are entitled to park in the bay then no time limit. If in a
bay you are not entitled to park in then it will come down to
the markings
#Post#: 3501--------------------------------------------------
Re: Dagenham - Contravention Code 30, parked too long
DIR By: DancingDad
Date: August 19, 2023, 2:57 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Pastmybest link ---
>
> People shold not get tied up with the virtual BB vs physical
one For if the council operate a scheme that really only has one
purpose, to prevent theft, then providing you have a registered
virtual BB that must be taken as a BB on display then providing
you are entitled to park in the bay then no time limit. If in a
bay you are not entitled to park in then it will come down to
the markings
>
--- End Quote ---
Dagenham are sparse with info on their virtual badge scheme, ie
where you can use.
Haringey are a little more forthcoming and basically say that
the virtual replaces the physical BB within the area, as said,
primary purpose seems to be to be crack down on BB theft.
HTML https://www.haringey.gov.uk/parking-roads-and-travel/parking/parking-permits/disabled/resident-Blue-Badge/about
While it is always iffy to assume that one London Borough uses
same rules as another, they should and if the Virtual BB is
limited more then a physical BB, they should say.
From what I can find, the only added conditions for Dagenham are
it is linked to a specific vehicle and only for use in their own
CPZ.
Taking all on board I would challenge on:--
I have a virtual courtesy BB, details of which can be checked
against vehicle registration.
This equates to the physical BB being displayed and as such, the
contravention stated cannot occur.
I also have to query the clarity of the road markings, it being
unclear whether I was parked within a resident's permit bay or a
short stay bay. Both are unlimited time for BB holders but is
confusing to the diligent driver.
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