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#Post#: 46827--------------------------------------------------
PCN charge - Taxi Rank George Lane
DIR By: rh.95
Date: November 24, 2024, 5:48 am
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Hi [member=7]mrmustard[/member], I have seen that you helped
“flash2005” wife with his PCN on 23/11/2023 on South Woodford,
George Lane (number plate: YU02SEF), where you won the appeal on
7/04/2024 as the council notified you this PCN was cancelled.
Unfortunately, in very similar circumstances to “flash2005”
whilst I was driving my fathers car I received a PCN when
parking on the same spot in the taxi rank and I was wondering if
it worth appealing and risk paying £130 or just paying £65
whilst the price is discounted. Unfortunately, there are no
signs on the floor/ writing that these 3 specific bays are taxi
ranks, all the other bays on the road (both sides of George
Lane) are parking bays and the disabled parking bays have signs/
writing saying “disabled” on them, and as per attached google
drive images, the actual sign which says that the 3 bays are
taxi ranks sits at the very top and its in such small writing
that you can barely see it, it was also raining outside as well,
therefore much poor visibility and even harder to read small
text especially when it is raining outside. (I personally think
this is completely designed to catch people out, because why its
not the lowest sign or in big writing like the other two signs
is beyond me). Additionally to “flash2005” wife I am also
dyslexic (I have a report to prove it too which I can happily
provide). Additionally you can see the taxi rank outside M&S
(please see link attached) is yellow and clearly a taxi rank,
therefore this is ambiguous.
Having read your message/ reply on 29/2/24 on the thread I can
see that your argument/ grounds to appeal this PCN was due to a
procedural impropriety. In short, due to the council not
clicking on external links with evidence your “flash2005”
attached and tracking the number of times they clicked on the
links (which they did not) and then referencing other cases
whereby council have cancelled charges due to not reviewing all
the evidence provided, and that the notice to owner
non-compliant.
Therefore, would it be fair to say this case is reliant on
hoping the council aren’t thorough with their procedures (such
as not clicking external links and us tracking that etc), and
then catching them out on that? Also as per the Civil
Enforcement Handbook V2 The contravention occurs when a vehicle
that it is not a licensed taxi with a licence plate on the rear
waits on a taxi rank marked ‘TAXIS’and this did not have the
writing.
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/pLZTf3ckBeQiTZX27
parked outside of The
Woodford (formerly Slug and Lettuce).
#Post#: 46832--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN charge - Taxi Rank George Lane
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: November 24, 2024, 6:29 am
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A couple of cases were won by sign clutter.
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/pcn-at-south-woodford-late-at-night/msg43813/#msg43813
#Post#: 46833--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN charge - Taxi Rank George Lane
DIR By: mrmustard
Date: November 24, 2024, 6:32 am
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I like to start by seeing a full copy of both sides of the pcn
please. Don't hide anything
#Post#: 46858--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN charge - Taxi Rank George Lane
DIR By: rh.95
Date: November 24, 2024, 12:53 pm
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hi [member=2249]stamfordman[/member] thanks for your input,
thats very helpful
hi [member=7]mrmustard[/member], please see attached. Many
thanks.
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 46904--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN charge - Taxi Rank George Lane
DIR By: mrmustard
Date: November 25, 2024, 4:46 am
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Personally I think most adjudicators will find the signage to be
adequate when the thick yellow line on the ground is taken into
account but that is me guessing the future and what the
particular adjudicator would think and they all think
differently.
The PCN contains a wording error, the 28 days should refer to
the date of the alleged contravention.
When I first raised this argument it was a winner with 3
different adjudicators and then they all changed their minds on
later cases and now refuse.
The best argument is that the Redbridge website is an absolute
assault course to navigate with a requirement to say that about
a dozen reasons why the PCN will not be cancelled rather than
asking why it should be. It also doesn't offer the chance to
upload a document if you are a Firefox user. I think it is in
breach of the council's duty to be procedurally fair. I have
used this argument before but it has not yet been considered in
detail. The outcome is uncertain and when coupled with a
contravention which I think occurred it reduces the chances of a
technical argument being allowed.
I'm not taking on extra tribunal work at the moment. I have 9
this week, I can't go on at this pace.
#Post#: 46930--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN charge - Taxi Rank George Lane
DIR By: rh.95
Date: November 25, 2024, 6:59 am
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hi [member=7]mrmustard[/member], thanks for getting back to me.
For clarification I parked outside The Woodford (previous known
as Slug and Lettuce) which was in the white bays, not the yellow
bays outside of M&S.
That is no problem if you cannot take on anything more, thank
you for considering it and its good that you know your own
capacity.
So based on your response, am I right in concluding that you do
not think it is unlikely I'd win the appeal? Despite, the
cluttering of signs, the taxi sign being at the top and
unreadable, despite there being no markings on the ground saying
"taxi" and not complying with the civil enforcement handbook,
the appalling Redbridge website, the error on the pcn etc.?
many thanks [member=7]mrmustard[/member]
#Post#: 46962--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN charge - Taxi Rank George Lane
DIR By: mrmustard
Date: November 25, 2024, 9:21 am
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No expert on here can do anything other than consider how a
particular adjudicator, and we don't know who we get in advance,
will decide the matter on the day. Some are generous, others are
strict.
We can be 90% sure of winning or losing before the eharing and
get the opposite answer.
It doesn't help you at all if I say I think I am 40% likely to
win as the answer is always 100% or zero%
#Post#: 47008--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN charge - Taxi Rank George Lane
DIR By: rh.95
Date: November 25, 2024, 2:23 pm
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hi [member=7]mrmustard[/member] thanks for the reply, I
appreciate that you cant guess whether you'll get someone who is
lenient or strict. What I will do is appeal the decision with
the points made here and the points
[member=2249]stamfordman[/member] made about clutter, because if
I lose the appeal then I still get the discounted penalty, not
the full penalty, so worth a try.
Many thanks
#Post#: 51585--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN charge - Taxi Rank George Lane
DIR By: mrmustard
Date: January 1, 2025, 8:33 am
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This PCN has been paid.
#Post#: 51590--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN charge - Taxi Rank George Lane
DIR By: rh.95
Date: January 1, 2025, 8:55 am
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Hi [member=7]mrmustard[/member], thats correct. The appeal was
rejected. After considering this thread and other peoples
threads who also received the same pcn as I did, I decided to
not take it further and pay the fine. Despite how I felt about
the pcn and how unfair the signage and road markings were.
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