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#Post#: 46797--------------------------------------------------
PCN Enfield, Code 83 Parked in a car park without displaying
ticket, Lodge Drive
DIR By: Cgehansen
Date: November 23, 2024, 3:17 pm
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I've been issued with a PCN for parking in the Lodge Drive Car
Park in Enfield whilst not displaying a ticket, voucher or
parking clock.
When I arrived at the car park I saw a large notice which stated
that in designated bays parking was free for 45 minutes. It's
not clear on the sign what the process is for the 45 minutes
free parking but my first impression was that it seemed a code
needed to be used on the Pay by Phone app.
I then parked in a designated bay and found a sign in front of
it stating that a code 080653 could be texted to 65565 to
register the free parking. My Pay by Phone app had expired an
needed to be updated so I chose the text option.
I sent the text immediately at 13:41 and started to walk out of
the car park. Whilst walking I recieved a text response that my
message was not in the correct format and that I needed to
supply the vehicle registration number, parking duration and cvv
number etc. I did not have my bank card on me but did text the
registration number to see if that would work. Unfortunately it
didn't so, as I did not have the cvv number of my bank card, I
returned to my vehicle.
In the intervening period (7 minutes) I was issued with a PCN
Code 83.
I explained to the CEO what had happened and he said that I
should have picked up a free ticket from the ticket machine.
This machine was in the far corner of the car park with no
visible signage and well away from the entrance.
The CEO said I could also have used a parking clock and I did
have one in my car. But as there there was no intructions on the
signage in the car park explaining that was a possibility I did
not think to use it.
Any advice on how to proceed would be greatly appreciated. Aside
from the confusing processes and signeage I was wondering if the
10 minute rule would apply here?
HTML https://i.imgur.com/Z40rAK3.jpg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/uAUUi7c.jpg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/kpqxSEV.jpg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/B4P1mPA.jpg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/Fn7aKWi.jpg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/Vc4jPvo.jpg
#Post#: 46809--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN Enfield, Code 83 Parked in a car park without displaying
ticket, Lodge Drive
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: November 23, 2024, 6:15 pm
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The 10 minute rule applies to overstays, so prevents a CEO from
serving a PCN until 10 minutes have elapsed. I suppose you could
claim it applies here, but the regulation would need studying.
HTML https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2022/71/regulation/5/made
Why not submit representations based on what you have told us
here ? This initial reps would be an informal challenge. Post up
their response when you get it, and further advice can be given
on whether it would be worth waiting for the Notice to Owner and
submitting formal reps, then if necessary, taking them to London
Tribunals. Nothing the CEO told you is on the car park tariff
and conditions board.
#Post#: 46816--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN Enfield, Code 83 Parked in a car park without displaying
ticket, Lodge Drive
DIR By: Cgehansen
Date: November 24, 2024, 3:18 am
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Yes I was planning to make an informal representation to start
with. I can see that Enfield’s website says “The first 45
minutes are free of charge Monday to Friday by …getting a ticket
from the machines located at the car parks” but this is not
mentioned on any of the signs or even on the one machine hidden
in the corner of the car park. I'm wondering whether, as the
signage doesn't state a ticket needs to be displayed, the
contravention should have been 85 - Parked without a valid
virtual permit or clearly displaying a valid physical permit
where required (Mrs Lydia Russo - v - Plymouth City
Council
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1WW83Desv43qE8aviq2wez1KRsivNCqME/view.)
#Post#: 46817--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN Enfield, Code 83 Parked in a car park without displaying
ticket, Lodge Drive
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: November 24, 2024, 4:23 am
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OP, based upon your account:
On *** I parked at **** i tending to utilise the FREE 45-minute
parking option. I comlied with the instructions on the relevant
signs and *******. I was prevented from completing the process
because surprisingly my application was refused because I had
not entered my VRM or 'cvv', see enclosed snapshot of this
message. Given that the transaction was FREE, a cvv should not
have been required and the council must explain why this
potentially sensitive information was demanded. Be that as it
may, the signs did not require the input of a VRM either(
clearly an error on the council's part because otherwise a
transaction would be anonymous).
I did not have my card details with me and returned to my car
before leaving the car park. Given the evidence of my phone
records and my personal knowledge, I estimate that the elapsed
time from leaving to returning to my car was no more than 7
minutes
I am making the following representations.
1. 'Penalty exceeded the amount applicable in the circumstances
of the case'
Firstly, the contravention grounds are incorrect. The main and
subsidiary noticeboards clearly visible at the car park, see
enclosed photos, do not require the display of a ticket or
voucher of any sort i.e. for FREE 45 minutes(which I attempted
to obtain)the procedure is 'paperless', namely to text 65565
with location code 808653.
Secondly, even if the contravention occurred(which is denied)
the authority were prevented from demanding a penalty until 10
minutes had elapsed since parking lawfully about which there
could be no dispute because I attempted to obtain my free 45
minutes' parking rights as required prior to the PCN being
issued. (Regulation 5(3)(b) of the General Provisions Regs 2022
applies).
For the above reasons the PCN must be cancelled.
My thoughts.
#Post#: 46899--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN Enfield, Code 83 Parked in a car park without displaying
ticket, Lodge Drive
DIR By: Cgehansen
Date: November 25, 2024, 3:43 am
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Thank you. That wording sums everything up perfectly. I'll
update when I hear back from them.
#Post#: 50121--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN Enfield, Code 83 Parked in a car park without displaying
ticket, Lodge Drive
DIR By: Cgehansen
Date: December 16, 2024, 1:13 pm
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The PCN has been cancelled. No reason was given in the response
other than "I have carefully considered your case and the points
you have made". Thanks for all your help.
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