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DIR Return to: Speeding and other criminal offences
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#Post#: 46297--------------------------------------------------
31 in 20: NIP/172, driver confirmed, no comms for 5 months -
SJPN now received!
DIR By: WinterDay
Date: November 19, 2024, 5:21 pm
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Found my way here having used Pepipoo for parking fines years
ago. I have researched posts on this forum relating to a
speeding offence issue my wife now has and would really
appreciate any advice.
Driver: My wife. Age: 40+ Licence: Full, 5+ years, clean
(always), no recent address changes.
Vehicle: 14 year old Astra, her car - she is registered keeper.
Logbook correct, no recent address changes.
11/06/24: Caught speeding by camera van, 31 in a 20, Local
Traffic Order. West Yorkshire Police.
13/06/24: NIP/172 received by my wife.
15/06/24: She reviewed photos online, nominated herself as
driver online and gave full licence details.
Nothing further heard of it for 5 months, until:
16/11/24: SJPN received by my wife! Charge date 14/11/24.
Statement of facts includes:
"....The defendant has responded to a request under S172 of RTA
1988 which was sent on 13/06/2024 and provided an admission to
being the driver at the time of the offence. Retraining Course
offered but not booked or taken. Conditional Offer - no record
of licence details or payment being received by HMCTS"
No offer or any other correspondence was received. No question
of this. We are very organised and nobody else has access to
our house.
We HAVE had postal delivery issues previously.
1) We are number "X" on our street with next door number "Xa".
They are the only "a" on the street. They've had our post and
us theirs a few times in the 3 years we've been here. Haven't
been on the best terms with them in the last year or so, but I'd
hope they would still pass on any wrongly delivered mail as we
do.
2) 2-3 letters have not arrived to us previously and we've
received 2-3 cards/letters addressed to street with a similar
name which isn't too far away.
However, my understanding is that the police need only
demonstrate proof of postage which we assume they will be able
to. As we have nothing documented to evidence our previous
postal issues it seems not worth trying to argue any of this to
sway the "balance of probability" that nothing was delivered.
Is this correct?
Should she now just plead guilty by post?
Should she include / not include anything specifically (assume
attempted mitigation) in the section "What do you want the court
to consider about your guilty plea(s)?"
Is outcome likely to be?
- 2/3 to 1 weeks net salary - potentially reduced by 33% for
guilty plea
- Victim Surcharge of 40% of the fine
- Prosecution costs of £90
- 4-6 points on licence
Can she now at all avoid this much bigger financial penalty and
more points vs if she had received the initial offer and taken a
speed awareness course....or even chosen a £100 fine and 3
points?
Total cost of the penalty appears to be roughly equal to the
value of her car and assume will further impact through higher
insurance costs. All very hard to accept given the situation
here which she could have done nothing to avoid.
#Post#: 46306--------------------------------------------------
Re: 31 in 20: NIP/172, driver confirmed, no comms for 5 months
- SJPN now received!
DIR By: andy_foster
Date: November 19, 2024, 5:42 pm
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No idea how or why you're attempting to post in HTML. Wasn't
supported on PePiPoo and isn't supported here.
Do you want a good rant, or do you actually want some advice?
If the latter, you might have better luck if you tidy up your
post and post proper questions, rather than sticking question
marks at the end of statements.
#Post#: 46313--------------------------------------------------
Re: 31 in 20: NIP/172, driver confirmed, no comms for 5 months
- SJPN now received!
DIR By: WinterDay
Date: November 19, 2024, 7:51 pm
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Seemed a weird glitch to me too, but the preview of my post kept
showing as one big wall of text without me manually adding the
HTML line breaks!
So was trying to make it more readable, which now seems somewhat
ironic given your criticism.
Whatever the issue is continues in this post too.
In the input window my post has a single line spacing after each
full stop - with no HTML line breaks coding added.
Not so in the preview window - and so testing this for the final
post....
#Post#: 46314--------------------------------------------------
Re: 31 in 20: NIP/172, driver confirmed, no comms for 5 months
- SJPN now received!
DIR By: WinterDay
Date: November 19, 2024, 7:57 pm
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Ah. So it appears it's the Preview post function that doesn't
work properly, but the final post actually displays correctly.
I'll edit my original post.
Ok I will edit the more statement like questions too as
evidently not appropriate.
#Post#: 46316--------------------------------------------------
Re: 31 in 20: NIP/172, driver confirmed, no comms for 5 months
- SJPN now received!
DIR By: JRHartley
Date: November 19, 2024, 10:13 pm
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The Speed Awareness Course is now gone, unfortunately. That
settlement is not available to the court.
The best option for your wife now would be to plead guilty and
ask to be sentenced at the Fixed Penalty level, as a COFP was
offered, but couldn't be accepted due to administrative reasons
unrelated to the offence.
#Post#: 46336--------------------------------------------------
Re: 31 in 20: NIP/172, driver confirmed, no comms for 5 months
- SJPN now received!
DIR By: WinterDay
Date: November 20, 2024, 5:03 am
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@ JRHartley - Thanks for replying.
Frustrating that speed awareness course is now impossible as she
quite obviously would have done that.
Assume COFP means "Conditional Offer Fixed Penalty"? Is that
he £100 fine and 3 points?
In terms of how to complete the form - should she simply state
something like:
"Please could I be sentenced at the Fixed Penalty level, as a
COFP was offered, but couldn't be accepted due to administrative
reasons unrelated to the offence."
Or is that just a summary - and she should actually go into
detail about her responding online within 2 days to the NIP/S172
and would have taken speed awareness course but never received
the offer. And points around potential reasons why - I.E -
potential postage related issues I noted above?
She/I have no experience around anything like this and want to
make sure she has the best chance of the lowest fine/points
possible - and so don't want to leave detail out, or annoy a
magistrate with too much irrelevant detail or the wrong tone of
her response.
#Post#: 46339--------------------------------------------------
Re: 31 in 20: NIP/172, driver confirmed, no comms for 5 months
- SJPN now received!
DIR By: 666
Date: November 20, 2024, 5:46 am
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--- Quote from: WinterDay link ---
>
> @ JRHartley - Thanks for replying.
>
> Frustrating that speed awareness course is now impossible as
she quite obviously would have done that.
>
> Assume COFP means "Conditional Offer Fixed Penalty"? Is that
he £100 fine and 3 points?
>
> In terms of how to complete the form - should she simply state
something like:
>
> "Please could I be sentenced at the Fixed Penalty level, as a
COFP was offered, but couldn't be accepted due to administrative
reasons unrelated to the offence."
>
> Or is that just a summary - and she should actually go into
detail about her responding online within 2 days to the NIP/S172
and would have taken speed awareness course but never received
the offer. And points around potential reasons why - I.E -
potential postage related issues I noted above?
>
> She/I have no experience around anything like this and want to
make sure she has the best chance of the lowest fine/points
possible - and so don't want to leave detail out, or annoy a
magistrate with too much irrelevant detail or the wrong tone of
her response.
>
--- End Quote ---
I'd suggest "Please could I be sentenced at the Fixed Penalty
level, as a COFP was apparently sent but was not received."
(a) In general, it's best to be brief, and
(b) the court will know it was unrelated etc.
#Post#: 46549--------------------------------------------------
Re: 31 in 20: NIP/172, driver confirmed, no comms for 5 months
- SJPN now received!
DIR By: WinterDay
Date: November 21, 2024, 2:38 pm
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Thank you for the info. I'll tell her to complete with just
that statement then.
My instinct was to tell her to include much more information as
I outlined - as reasoning to try and convince the magistrate of
the truth of the admin/postal/whatever issue that must have
caused her to not receive the COFP.
But I suppose being as brief as possible indicates that she
understands the situation now, regardless of what caused it, and
so is being straightforward and quick - which hopefully is
treated favourably?
Either way, will take the experience of the forum - as we have
none here!
#Post#: 46861--------------------------------------------------
Re: 31 in 20: NIP/172, driver confirmed, no comms for 5 months
- SJPN now received!
DIR By: WinterDay
Date: November 24, 2024, 1:04 pm
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Form has questions about finances - anyone able to help?...
"Avg take home income (i.e after tax)" So her gross - less
tax...and NI? (So before anything like pension contributions
and a share save scheme she is in comes off?)
Her base salary is low but she can earn monthly and quarterly
bonus's and fairly often does. None guaranteed though. What's
the correct way to complete this?
Monthly outgoings - we share mortgage and bills but I earn and
pay more towards them. Should she state the full payments
required (will look impossible for her alone) or about 50% which
is more reasonable?
Assets - asks to list, is this just "I own my car, my husband
and I are co-owners of our house with mortgage" or does it need
more detail?
#Post#: 46872--------------------------------------------------
Re: 31 in 20: NIP/172, driver confirmed, no comms for 5 months
- SJPN now received!
DIR By: NewJudge
Date: November 24, 2024, 3:43 pm
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Simply state how much she actually takes home each week/month.
No need to get too bogged down; unless it is ridiculously low
nobody is going to query it.
Outgoings are only considered when agreeing a payment plan.
Unless they are unusually high they will not influence that
significantly and will have no influence at all if the total sum
ordered is settled in one go.
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