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#Post#: 46347--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bromley - PCN is this Not Parking Correctly within the
markings of the bay?
DIR By: FuzzedRinggit
Date: November 20, 2024, 6:14 am
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I do live nearby so I will go and measure today.
So I have an avenue to appeal as the PCN says I was parked
outside of the parking place markings (schedule 5, Part 1), but
the bay isn't specifically sign posted as being a parking place
so the PCN is void?
The bay may well be too narrow as well, which I'll add to the
appeal.
If I've got this right, I'll draft an appeal today and post here
to make sure I haven't missed anything which given how
complicated I find the legislation is very likely!
Thanks so much everyone,
Fuzzy
#Post#: 46384--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bromley - PCN is this Not Parking Correctly within the
markings of the bay?
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: November 20, 2024, 10:08 am
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I'm not sure Bromley counts this zone as a CPZ as it's not
listed on its site, only ones in Bromley town centre. This is
similar to Redbridge, which has some yellow line only CPZs (with
no parking bays).
But here there are bays, which should have signs. For the record
this is what Bromley says about CPZs:
[i]An area where a controlled parking zone (CPZ) applies
includes a number of roads where waiting restrictions apply at a
specified time. The times of restriction are indicated by signs
placed on the entrances and exits to the zone. Individual signs
will only be present within a CPZ where a restriction varies to
the rest of the zone, i.e. disabled bays, loading bays, permit
bays and yellow lines where the restriction times differ to
those shown on the zone plates.[/I]
If this bay is enforceable which it probably isn't there is
this.
---------
Case reference
Authority
Contravention date
Contravention time
Contravention location
Penalty amount
Contravention
Decision Date
Adjudicator
Appeal decision
Direction
Owner.
Reasons
witness statement and I therefore consider the merits afresh.
The Council's case is that the Appellant's vehicle was not
parked correctly within the markings of the bay in Romford High
Street on 13 November 2023. A penalty charge notice was issued
at 1804.
The Appellant states that there was no error with his parking
and that he did park within the bay provided and explained the
difficulties were caused by a lorry in front of him and a car
behind him. He refers to front tyre being out of the bay.
The Council rely upon the evidence of its civil enforcement
officer. Whilst these are dark, it can be seen that the entire
front wheel of the Appellant's vehicle is within the adjacent
loading only bay.
However there is no evidence before me any condition to park
fully within the bay has been communicated to the motorist. The
Council describe the bay as a parking bay and that the vehicle
was straddling into a loading bay. However it is a requirement
for delegated legislation that the obligation to park fully
within the bay must be communicated.
As there is no evidence before me as to how this was done for
the bay in question, the appeal must be allowed.
#Post#: 46394--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bromley - PCN is this Not Parking Correctly within the
markings of the bay?
DIR By: FuzzedRinggit
Date: November 20, 2024, 10:50 am
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Thanks stamfordman. I am getting the idea of how this bay isn't
enforceable so will write up what I have gleaned from all of
you!
BTW, I measured the bay and one end was 1.98m and the other end
was 1.90m so it is within the limits. I noticed there was a
large white van further up the road in one of the bays where the
wheelbase was wider than the bay. It didn't have a ticket at
that point but I can imagine the same attendant will try to
issue one later on!
Fuzzy
#Post#: 46402--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bromley - PCN is this Not Parking Correctly within the
markings of the bay?
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: November 20, 2024, 11:17 am
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For the record this is what Bromley says about CPZs:
An area where a controlled parking zone (CPZ) applies includes a
number of roads where waiting restrictions apply at a specified
time. The times of restriction are indicated by signs placed on
the entrances and exits to the zone. Individual signs will only
be present within a CPZ where a restriction varies to the rest
of the zone, i.e. disabled bays, loading bays, permit bays and
yellow lines where the restriction times differ to those shown
on the zone plates.
It's breathtaking in its arrogance.
A CPZ exists only by virtue of the entrance signs (providing
markings comply)and these convey what the law, not b****y
Bromley, prescribes. You cannot have the same sign meaning
different things in different places!
There are options for councils:
Controlled” may be varied to “Meter”, “Disc”, “Ticket”, “Disc
and Meter”, “Disc and Ticket” or “Pay and Display
#Post#: 46403--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bromley - PCN is this Not Parking Correctly within the
markings of the bay?
DIR By: FuzzedRinggit
Date: November 20, 2024, 11:28 am
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Thanks for your help everyone. I'm not sure I have the ability
to write in the very best tone but this is what I've drafted so
far. Feel free to make corrections and additions, and thanks
again!
[I]
Dear...
The car HK07AKO was parked on The Drive in one of the ‘parking
bays’ late one night last week. Upon leaving the vehicle, I
looked at the back wheel closest which was very much within the
parking bay and a good distance from the yellow line. However,
the whole of the ground was covered in leaves and it wasn’t
possible to see, in the dark on a very badly lit road, that
although the nearside was away from the yellow line, it was
outside of the ‘parking bay’. This has never been a problem
before, and with cars being much larger now than when the road
was built, many cars along The Drive overhang the markings. For
this reason, I find it very unfair that I received a ticket.
However, I have also ascertained that the Code 24 (Not parked
correctly within the markings of the bay or space) is not
enforceable. Code 24 refers to a ‘parking bay or space’ which
is not what this area is designated as. In order for Code 24 to
be enforceable, the space has to be sign posted with a ‘P’ sign
for ‘Parking’ which is detailed in Schedule 5, Part 1 of
Regulation 3, Direction 3 of The Traffic Signs Regulations and
General Directions 2016.
The area of The Drive is not a designated CPZ in Bromley and
therefore does not have any restrictions on parking in the bays.
The road markings referred to in the PCN are not enforceable as
this bay, and indeed all the bays, have no signage for parking
as described in The Traffic Signs Regulations and General
Directions 2016 under Schedule 7, Part 1. The area of The Drive
has Controlled Parking but this signage (attached) only refers
to the parking on single yellow lines at certain times, not the
‘parking bays’ marked out in the road[/i].
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[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 46414--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bromley - PCN is this Not Parking Correctly within the
markings of the bay?
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: November 20, 2024, 3:22 pm
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IMO, leave out anything to do with CPZ, it's a hare dressed as a
red herring
#Post#: 46445--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bromley - PCN is this Not Parking Correctly within the
markings of the bay?
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: November 21, 2024, 4:07 am
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Yes the lat para can go.
You can add instead
Please note that in any case no requirement to park in the
bounds of a parking bay is communicated to the motorist at this
location. I believe this is contrary to legislation.
#Post#: 51402--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bromley - PCN is this Not Parking Correctly within the
markings of the bay?
DIR By: FuzzedRinggit
Date: December 30, 2024, 1:02 pm
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Hi all
Bromley Parking have come back and said that my reasons for the
parking space are not valid and that a Parkign sign is not
needed- here's the reply.
Are they correct? And if they are wrong, what do we do from
here?
[attachimg=1][attachimg=2]
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 51418--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bromley - PCN is this Not Parking Correctly within the
markings of the bay?
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: December 30, 2024, 3:42 pm
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This should be hopeless for them because as we've established
the bays must have parking signs unless there is a bay marking
that shows a single restriction operating at all times.
This is nothing to do with whether the bay is in a CPZ or not.
So I don't think the bay meets the status of one that can be
defined by a traffic order and hence subject to policing of its
boundary.
See what Mr Anderson says.
#Post#: 51433--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bromley - PCN is this Not Parking Correctly within the
markings of the bay?
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: December 30, 2024, 5:26 pm
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I would definitely carry on with this, Bexley Council are
clearly just winging it hoping you'll give up and pay. If there
is no sign for the bay, odds are the bay is not regulated and
therefore not subject to any requirements at all.
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