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#Post#: 46219--------------------------------------------------
Bromley - PCN is this Not Parking Correctly within the markings
of the bay?
DIR By: FuzzedRinggit
Date: November 19, 2024, 9:25 am
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Hi all
This might be a long shot but wanted to run it by the experts
here before I appeal or pay!
Bromley Council: BY23042228
The photos show that the wheels are within the back of the bay
but one wheel is outside the road side boundary. Previous
neighbours have had Smartcars which hang over the roadside
boundary and have been told that it is fine, as it's within the
bay's length.
It is only the one wheel that is sticking out here. How do
massive cars which are wider than the bay width fare if this is
the rule?
Many thanks all,
Fuzzy
#Post#: 46222--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bromley - PCN is this Not Parking Correctly within the
markings of the bay?
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: November 19, 2024, 10:19 am
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What is the car VRM/numberplate.
Post the PCN.
#Post#: 46224--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bromley - PCN is this Not Parking Correctly within the
markings of the bay?
DIR By: FuzzedRinggit
Date: November 19, 2024, 10:26 am
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Thank you!
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 46228--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bromley - PCN is this Not Parking Correctly within the
markings of the bay?
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: November 19, 2024, 10:35 am
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Looks rather petty to me - it does look like a narrow bay.
It is a controlled zone but there are no parking signs in the
bays - we can look at the traffic order.
HTML https://i.ibb.co/x7hfqmS/br4.jpg
HTML https://i.ibb.co/GCxd3Hg/br3.jpg
HTML https://i.ibb.co/LNgr0Vx/br2.jpg
HTML https://i.ibb.co/rxDXP3x/br1.jpg
#Post#: 46229--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bromley - PCN is this Not Parking Correctly within the
markings of the bay?
DIR By: FuzzedRinggit
Date: November 19, 2024, 10:40 am
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It's a controlled zone 8am - 6:30pm and the ticket was at
9:15(ish) today.
It was parked there on Sunday and no one thought it needed a
ticket on Monday!
#Post#: 46304--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bromley - PCN is this Not Parking Correctly within the
markings of the bay?
DIR By: mickR
Date: November 19, 2024, 5:37 pm
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@Fuzzed...
the PCN isn't for parking during controlled hours, it's for
outside of bay... but if there is no sign for that bay then the
bay may not be enforceable in which case it's the wrong
contravention.
#Post#: 46320--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bromley - PCN is this Not Parking Correctly within the
markings of the bay?
DIR By: FuzzedRinggit
Date: November 20, 2024, 2:06 am
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--- Quote from: mickR link ---
>
> @Fuzzed...
> the PCN isn't for parking during controlled hours, it's for
outside of bay... but if there is no sign for that bay then the
bay may not be enforceable in which case it's the wrong
contravention.
>
--- End Quote ---
Does the controlled sign at the front of the zone not count?
Otherwise, no there is nothing specifically on that bay.
#Post#: 46330--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bromley - PCN is this Not Parking Correctly within the
markings of the bay?
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: November 20, 2024, 4:04 am
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Does the controlled sign at the front of the zone not count?
NO. See the legal definition of a CPZ
HTML https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2016/362/schedule/1/made
In short, as already posted, it has no effect in what
purportedly is a parking space.
But it isn't because the only time when a sign may be dispensed
with within a CPZ is when there are road markings which give
effect to a 24/7 restriction which may be conveyed by such
markings e.g. disabled, loading etc.
They're stuffed, but whether they want to continue to lie to get
you to pay, who knows?
Training and professionalism in civil parking enforcement
Once a solid foundation of policies, legitimate TROs and clear
and lawful signs and lines are in place, the success of civil
parking enforcement will depend on the dedication and quality of
the staff that deliver it.
It is essential to give staff at all levels the skills and
training to do their jobs effectively if the service is to
command public confidence and respect.
.....
Civil enforcement officers
CEOs are the public face of civil parking enforcement and the
way they perform their functions is crucial to the success, and
public perception, of an authority’s operation. It is
recommended that all CEOs achieve minimum standards through
recognised training courses.
...
CEOs’ traffic management duties will also include related
activities such as the following:
inspecting parking equipment
checking and reporting defective traffic signs and road markings
Not my words, the Secretary of State for Transport in their
Statutory Guidance to authorities to which they 'must have
regard'!
#Post#: 46337--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bromley - PCN is this Not Parking Correctly within the
markings of the bay?
DIR By: FuzzedRinggit
Date: November 20, 2024, 5:26 am
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So as I understand it, as it wasn't parked on a yellow line, the
fact that it was outside of the road markings isn't a
contravention because the bay doesn't have it's own signage?
Therefore, they can't give me a ticket?
Can someone verify?
Also, is this the legislation you're referring to H C Andersen?
Surely the fact that there's signs at the start and end of the
controlled zone (ie each end of the road) means that it's valid?
Or am I missing the point?
“restricted parking zone”
an area—
(a)
into which each entrance for vehicular traffic has been
indicated by a sign which includes the symbol and legend at item
2 of the sign table in Part 3 of Schedule 5; and
(b)
in which none of the road markings at items 1 to 4 of the sign
table in Part 4 of Schedule 7 has been placed
-Fuzzy
#Post#: 46341--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bromley - PCN is this Not Parking Correctly within the
markings of the bay?
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: November 20, 2024, 5:51 am
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Or am I missing the point?
Yes.
Schedules 5 and 7?
HTML https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2016/362/schedule/5/made
HTML https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2016/362/schedule/7/made
Waiting is waiting - with yellow lines(CPZ), without yellow
lines(Restricted Parking Zone).
Your alleged contravention refers to you being outside parking
place markings, nothing to do with waiting restrictions.
Do you live nearby, if so I suggest taking a tape measure to the
bay because it does seem narrow: min. width 1.8m. Also, min.
length 4.5m. IMO, the width of the road doesn't give rise to any
reason for the council to depart from these measurements.
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