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       #Post#: 46151--------------------------------------------------
       Haringey Council, Temporary parking suspension PCN.  N10,  code
       01(a),Parked in a restricted street.
   DIR By: jethy
       Date: November 19, 2024, 4:34 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Hello
       My daughter parked on a road that she uses for work which has no
       parking restrictions.  When she returned to her car she had a
       ticket.  There was a temporary suspension in place and there
       were purportedly signs that she did not see.  The closest sign
       was low down on a tree (not somewhere you would normally look
       for a parking restriction sign), also could have had a car
       obscuring the sign.
       She has taken her own pics of the nearest lampposts etc and
       there were no signs in place.   The pic from across her car
       shows a lamppost with no sign but there was a sign in the
       council pics?
       So we are unsure if the signs were there when she parked, and if
       there wee positioned badly.
       She has already challenged and has been rejected.  I will post
       this below and the reply.
       Any help would be very much appreciated.   Thanks in advance
       The council pics
  HTML https://ibb.co/album/ZW88Z5
       Our pics
  HTML https://ibb.co/album/R3N7BB
       PCN/Ticket
  HTML https://ibb.co/album/1YDCGh
       First challenge letter
  HTML https://ibb.co/album/sjGC0s
       Council response
  HTML https://ibb.co/album/Sfpvtp
       #Post#: 46170--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Haringey Council, Temporary parking suspension PCN.  N10, 
       code 01(a),Parked in a restricted street.
   DIR By: fraser.mitchell
       Date: November 19, 2024, 6:43 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       It's their usual Fob-Off reply in response to informal
       representations. As the street isn't restricted, they must first
       create a Temporary Traffic Regulation Order, (TTRO), then sign
       it appropriately.  Like any regular TRO, the signage
       requirements are within the LATOR 2006 regulations, in
       particular Regulation 18
  HTML https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1996/2489/contents
       Other thing to look at is, have they actually set up a TTRO ?
       The question now is, are you prepared to take them all the way
       and risk the full PCN penalty at London Tribunals. This would
       involve waiting for the Notice to Owner, submitting reps to
       that, then, if rejected, registering an appeal at London
       Tribunals.
       Are you the registered owner on the V5C and is the address
       correct and up-to-date ? The NtO is sent to the V5C address
       #Post#: 46175--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Haringey Council, Temporary parking suspension PCN.  N10, 
       code 01(a),Parked in a restricted street.
   DIR By: jethy
       Date: November 19, 2024, 6:59 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Hi, thanks for the reply.    I did look at the TMOs that
       Haringey have applied for and found one that would cover this
       and is borough wide (see below).
  HTML https://ibb.co/album/FLvdvP
       My daughter is registered owner to our address.    Happy to risk
       the rull PCN Penalty.
       #Post#: 46194--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Haringey Council, Temporary parking suspension PCN.  N10, 
       code 01(a),Parked in a restricted street.
   DIR By: H C Andersen
       Date: November 19, 2024, 7:57 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Para. 2 of the so-called order states..
       '..no vehicle shall enter, proceed in or wait .....'
       So, where was the 'no entry' sign(s)? (IMO, it should be enter
       and/or proceed in...because the way it's worded does not make
       entering an optional restriction).
       As the 'order' doesn't create a loading prohibition, then the
       sign purports to go beyond the powers in the order.
       If loading was similarly prohibited, then why was this not
       included in the contravention?
       OP, I'd submit a FoI request now to the council:
       As regards the '...........order' please advise where and how
       this was signed during the period 11-14 Oct. 2024 in Wellfield
       Ave. N10. Given that the enforcement of the order is subject to
       the number, siting and wording of 'traffic signs', then the
       council would have made a point of ensuring that(and recording)
       the specific locations and methods e.g. on lamppost 10 or on
       tree o/s no. 27 etc. were consistent with their regulatory duty.
       I also require a copy of the council decision which made the
       order.
       #Post#: 46195--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Haringey Council, Temporary parking suspension PCN.  N10, 
       code 01(a),Parked in a restricted street.
   DIR By: stamfordman
       Date: November 19, 2024, 8:02 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       This is the picture they will rely on concerning location of
       signage which is fairly conspicuous not far behind car.
  HTML https://i.imgur.com/b2LT6JM.png
       #Post#: 46201--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Haringey Council, Temporary parking suspension PCN.  N10, 
       code 01(a),Parked in a restricted street.
   DIR By: fraser.mitchell
       Date: November 19, 2024, 8:08 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: stamfordman link ---
       >
       > This is the picture they will rely on concerning location of
       signage which is fairly conspicuous not far behind car.
       >
       >
  HTML https://i.imgur.com/b2LT6JM.png
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Yes, but we need to know when the OP parked the car, and when
       the sign was put up. Also was the signage sufficient to convey
       the restriction. Their letter rejecting the informal challenge
       says nothing about when the sign was erected.
       #Post#: 46203--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Haringey Council, Temporary parking suspension PCN.  N10, 
       code 01(a),Parked in a restricted street.
   DIR By: jethy
       Date: November 19, 2024, 8:10 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Hi.  Right I think I understand.  So when you say a Fol request
       now, do you mean i write and request this information now?  I am
       asking them where and how the order was signed during this
       period (as you worded above)?
       Also asking them for a copy of the council decision which made
       the order for the specific road where my daughters car was
       ticketed?
       Thanks
       #Post#: 46205--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Haringey Council, Temporary parking suspension PCN.  N10, 
       code 01(a),Parked in a restricted street.
   DIR By: stamfordman
       Date: November 19, 2024, 8:18 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Yes, the OP hasn't said when the car was parked - which was
       when?
       #Post#: 46207--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Haringey Council, Temporary parking suspension PCN.  N10, 
       code 01(a),Parked in a restricted street.
   DIR By: jethy
       Date: November 19, 2024, 8:21 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       It was parked at 7:30 am, the ticket was issued at 9:06am
       #Post#: 46208--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Haringey Council, Temporary parking suspension PCN.  N10, 
       code 01(a),Parked in a restricted street.
   DIR By: H C Andersen
       Date: November 19, 2024, 8:26 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       That sign's about tree maintenance...or is it? The standard for
       signing is not for the council to shove up a sign which a driver
       is NOT expecting to see somewhere in what they think is the
       vicinity and then blame the motorist.
       IMO, the entrance to the road must carry a warning that
       restrictions are in place, apart from anything else because
       'entry' is prohibited!
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