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#Post#: 46151--------------------------------------------------
Haringey Council, Temporary parking suspension PCN. N10, code
01(a),Parked in a restricted street.
DIR By: jethy
Date: November 19, 2024, 4:34 am
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Hello
My daughter parked on a road that she uses for work which has no
parking restrictions. When she returned to her car she had a
ticket. There was a temporary suspension in place and there
were purportedly signs that she did not see. The closest sign
was low down on a tree (not somewhere you would normally look
for a parking restriction sign), also could have had a car
obscuring the sign.
She has taken her own pics of the nearest lampposts etc and
there were no signs in place. The pic from across her car
shows a lamppost with no sign but there was a sign in the
council pics?
So we are unsure if the signs were there when she parked, and if
there wee positioned badly.
She has already challenged and has been rejected. I will post
this below and the reply.
Any help would be very much appreciated. Thanks in advance
The council pics
HTML https://ibb.co/album/ZW88Z5
Our pics
HTML https://ibb.co/album/R3N7BB
PCN/Ticket
HTML https://ibb.co/album/1YDCGh
First challenge letter
HTML https://ibb.co/album/sjGC0s
Council response
HTML https://ibb.co/album/Sfpvtp
#Post#: 46170--------------------------------------------------
Re: Haringey Council, Temporary parking suspension PCN. N10,
code 01(a),Parked in a restricted street.
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: November 19, 2024, 6:43 am
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It's their usual Fob-Off reply in response to informal
representations. As the street isn't restricted, they must first
create a Temporary Traffic Regulation Order, (TTRO), then sign
it appropriately. Like any regular TRO, the signage
requirements are within the LATOR 2006 regulations, in
particular Regulation 18
HTML https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1996/2489/contents
Other thing to look at is, have they actually set up a TTRO ?
The question now is, are you prepared to take them all the way
and risk the full PCN penalty at London Tribunals. This would
involve waiting for the Notice to Owner, submitting reps to
that, then, if rejected, registering an appeal at London
Tribunals.
Are you the registered owner on the V5C and is the address
correct and up-to-date ? The NtO is sent to the V5C address
#Post#: 46175--------------------------------------------------
Re: Haringey Council, Temporary parking suspension PCN. N10,
code 01(a),Parked in a restricted street.
DIR By: jethy
Date: November 19, 2024, 6:59 am
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Hi, thanks for the reply. I did look at the TMOs that
Haringey have applied for and found one that would cover this
and is borough wide (see below).
HTML https://ibb.co/album/FLvdvP
My daughter is registered owner to our address. Happy to risk
the rull PCN Penalty.
#Post#: 46194--------------------------------------------------
Re: Haringey Council, Temporary parking suspension PCN. N10,
code 01(a),Parked in a restricted street.
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: November 19, 2024, 7:57 am
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Para. 2 of the so-called order states..
'..no vehicle shall enter, proceed in or wait .....'
So, where was the 'no entry' sign(s)? (IMO, it should be enter
and/or proceed in...because the way it's worded does not make
entering an optional restriction).
As the 'order' doesn't create a loading prohibition, then the
sign purports to go beyond the powers in the order.
If loading was similarly prohibited, then why was this not
included in the contravention?
OP, I'd submit a FoI request now to the council:
As regards the '...........order' please advise where and how
this was signed during the period 11-14 Oct. 2024 in Wellfield
Ave. N10. Given that the enforcement of the order is subject to
the number, siting and wording of 'traffic signs', then the
council would have made a point of ensuring that(and recording)
the specific locations and methods e.g. on lamppost 10 or on
tree o/s no. 27 etc. were consistent with their regulatory duty.
I also require a copy of the council decision which made the
order.
#Post#: 46195--------------------------------------------------
Re: Haringey Council, Temporary parking suspension PCN. N10,
code 01(a),Parked in a restricted street.
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: November 19, 2024, 8:02 am
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This is the picture they will rely on concerning location of
signage which is fairly conspicuous not far behind car.
HTML https://i.imgur.com/b2LT6JM.png
#Post#: 46201--------------------------------------------------
Re: Haringey Council, Temporary parking suspension PCN. N10,
code 01(a),Parked in a restricted street.
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: November 19, 2024, 8:08 am
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--- Quote from: stamfordman link ---
>
> This is the picture they will rely on concerning location of
signage which is fairly conspicuous not far behind car.
>
>
HTML https://i.imgur.com/b2LT6JM.png
>
--- End Quote ---
Yes, but we need to know when the OP parked the car, and when
the sign was put up. Also was the signage sufficient to convey
the restriction. Their letter rejecting the informal challenge
says nothing about when the sign was erected.
#Post#: 46203--------------------------------------------------
Re: Haringey Council, Temporary parking suspension PCN. N10,
code 01(a),Parked in a restricted street.
DIR By: jethy
Date: November 19, 2024, 8:10 am
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Hi. Right I think I understand. So when you say a Fol request
now, do you mean i write and request this information now? I am
asking them where and how the order was signed during this
period (as you worded above)?
Also asking them for a copy of the council decision which made
the order for the specific road where my daughters car was
ticketed?
Thanks
#Post#: 46205--------------------------------------------------
Re: Haringey Council, Temporary parking suspension PCN. N10,
code 01(a),Parked in a restricted street.
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: November 19, 2024, 8:18 am
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Yes, the OP hasn't said when the car was parked - which was
when?
#Post#: 46207--------------------------------------------------
Re: Haringey Council, Temporary parking suspension PCN. N10,
code 01(a),Parked in a restricted street.
DIR By: jethy
Date: November 19, 2024, 8:21 am
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It was parked at 7:30 am, the ticket was issued at 9:06am
#Post#: 46208--------------------------------------------------
Re: Haringey Council, Temporary parking suspension PCN. N10,
code 01(a),Parked in a restricted street.
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: November 19, 2024, 8:26 am
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That sign's about tree maintenance...or is it? The standard for
signing is not for the council to shove up a sign which a driver
is NOT expecting to see somewhere in what they think is the
vicinity and then blame the motorist.
IMO, the entrance to the road must carry a warning that
restrictions are in place, apart from anything else because
'entry' is prohibited!
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